So which antifreeze are you using, & poll

[Bob Beauchaine]

I have seen the gel-factor in a Chevy Blazer and you could spoon the stuff out. It looked like a very wet saw dust. He had been told $250. 00 plus with no guarantee as to getting the engine interior completely clean.



Bob

 

[Ncostello]

Just when I thought I was doing something right for my truck maybe I'm not. I bought the Rotella ELC ethylene glycol cause it was Cummins approved. But now... maybe its not Dodge "heater core approved"? I read the latest TDR shadetree article on antifreeze and couldn't prove anything. The author ended up buying Caterpillar ELC... mainly cause he could also buy the extender in single bottles. The extenders are usually hard to find.



I read Shells info, and studied up on Dex-Cool. I guess my question is whether or not Shell Rotella ELC is OAT, HOAT, or neither. It says its ethylene glycol base... with the additives of course. The red color is just dye as pure ethylene glycol is clear. So color dont mean a thing.



I sure dont want my antifreeze causing a heater core leak

 

[ben_ak]

Early GM's with DexCool did have problems. I sure they have addressed most, if not all of them since they started using it in '99 models. It is important to remember coolant can be dyed most any color without changing it's propertires - genuine Toyota coolant is red, Mercedes is clear, Subaru is dark green (you can tell compared to "bright" green normal stuff) so ethylene glycol mix can in theory be the same color as Dex Cool but have very different life span, etc. I think a conventional mix with regular flushing is the best bet.





-Ben

 

[pwr2tow]

Oh shoot, it looks like I will have to change back over to the green stuff.



I'am kind of fed up with this expensive (anti-freeze, synthetic engine oil, synthetic gear oils, synthetic power steering fluid, ETC. ETC. ) every thing do good stuff, can a guy just buy the cheap ethylene glyco stuff at wal-mart, since we don't have a cavitation problem in the cummins for the Dodge application?

 

[Cooker]

I've been running the John Deere Coo Guard 50/50. It is premixed and is pretty affordable as compared to some of the others, about $17/2. 5 gallons. It is the "green stuff" and if one choses you can add an extender to it.

 

[Ncostello]

Perhaps its slightly misleading to refer to anti-freezes as the red stuff or green stuff. If one has Fleetguard Compleat (green) and another has Rotella ELC (red) for example... whats the difference? Their both ethylene glycol. They both have additives that allow them to run for a lot of miles. The color difference is in the dye the manufacturer chooses. I suppose Rotella could as well be green too if Shell wanted it to. I know our Dodge 3500 cab/chassis at work has used Texaco ELC for 115,000 miles with no problems.



I think my confusion can be summed up as... which antifreeze uses the Organic Acid Technology, which uses Hybrid Organic Acid Technology, which ones dont use either, and which one(s) are bad for our cooling systems in total.



Is just being an ELC mean it uses some sort of Organic Acid Technologies?



I will have no problems just going to Napa and getting some plain ole antifreeze, couple jugs of water, and forgetting about ELC's if thats what it takes to be "safe". And its not my Cummins I'm worried about. I would rather change an engine than a heater core. Been there... done that on Fords. Not fun. :{

 

[Truckie]

ANTIFREEZE UP DATE

:-{} Well as you all know that how the antifreeze discussions go, so here is the verdict and what i used, and did.

Well after many searches here on TDR and this poll and reading TDR issue #41 I chose to go with Caterpillar ELC 50/50 pre mix.

The reason for this is I liked what i red on the web site and on the bottle, it was easy to get also. Every time I tried to get info on Fleet charge the page would freeze and when I called all the places around me that are Cummins dealers none of them were open on the week end and when I did find a place that was open it was 40minute ride ride to go and get the stuff. I got my CAT ELC at the big rig shop only 15 minutes from the house and I paid $8. 81 a gallon and I bought 6 gallons.

Well I drained the old stuff out in to a bucket and filled and flushed the system 3 times, the first 2 times at the end of the drain I blew some air in to the radiator making sure all the stuff was out and at the end I got a good amount of real fine dirt and silt that was brown, thats why I flushed the system 3 times. All three times i got the truck hot and did a good flush.

When I was ready to refill I cleaned up all the stuff and re connect the boost clamp and then refilled the system. I used 5 out of the 6 gallons I bought and also have the over flow tank filled. I checked the antifreeze freeze point and I'm somewhere around - 37 degrees and good to like 250to 260 boil over point. It was not that bad of a job other than getting wet a few times, and the flush and drain was a bit slow, but all in all it was not to bad. The main part is I know what I put in it and I know I did the work and it and was done right.

Thanks to all who chimed in with answers and what you were using, the inf helped. If you have any questions let me know.

Thanks for the help. MIKE

 

[pwr2tow]

A couple of good articles to reference.



TDR issue 35 Page 80

TDR issue 35 Page 129

TDR issue 37 Page 106



These were the very reasons I changed over.

I think there were more articles in different issues also, I will try to find time and look them up and post back.



Ron

 

[John]

I switched to the Amsoil propylene glycol antifreeze/coolant (purple) over a year ago, changing it out again when I added my SPA/SfS bright yellow hoses several months ago.

 

[rashwor]

Here is what I used...

Fleetguard ES Compleat Extended Life pre-mix. As a bonus, it is a pretty blue color. Change the thermostat at the same time; I did. Very happy with the results.

 

[Ncostello]

Everyone seems to have good luck with whatever they use. It probably makes no difference what brand anyone uses. Whether it be plain ole Walmart Tech antifreeze or Rotella ELC. But we really need to answer to ourselves... are ELC coolants bad for our radiators (Dodge part not Cummins) and the heater cores (again a Dodge part). If only certain ELC's are bad... which ones? This would help keep owners from making the mistake of choosing the wrong ELC.

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

I think Neil brings up the right points to look at, as far as our radiators go we don't have to worry about solder bloom (at least not on mine but probably the older trucks) because it's aluminum and plastic so I need the protection for aluminum. What do our heater cores look like? I've never seen mine, I know the one in my first gen was brass and soldered and that if it is just as difficult to get it out of this truck as it was the old truck, I don't want to ever have to do it!

 

[Weatherman]

Just changed my antifreeze in my 1999 Ram, Used Prestone Heavy Duty, (purple stuff) as recommended by Prestone. will let you know later how the perrformance is.

 

[radar doctor]

thanks for the info

Sounds like that time of the year doesn't? thanks for the info B

 

[Truckie]

I don,t know.

I don't know what the factory puts in the truck when they ship it, but it was not sweet tasting at all as a matter of fact it was bitter. IT still was a real dark green that you could not see through. But when I drained it and was flushing out the system I got a lot of settlement out of the drain, it was real fine and brown. The inside of my rad is clean no deposits on it at all but i still flushed= the system 3 times and ran the truck for a while.

are ELC coolants bad for our radiators (Dodge part not Cummins) and the heater cores (again a Dodge part). If only certain ELC's are bad... which ones? This would help keep owners from making the mistake of choosing the wrong ELC.

Well we can start her with what people have ran and are running and if they have had any problems post them here.

I ran stock antifreeze till last week end and just switched to CAT ELC. Lets try to make this simple and easy and see if we cant find out what ELC is bad and what is not for out trucks.

MIKE

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

My 2001 owners manual say to use a 50/50 mixture of ethylene glycol based engine coolant but nothing else, nothing about pH or silicate or phosphates. The service manual says to use ethylene glycol with Alugard 340-2. Does anyone have any written specifications for the proper selection of anti-freeze? I've been searching the net but haven't found anything good, alot of the information is out dated. I don't really think there is a wrong anti-freeze based on chryslers recommendations but some may be better than others for our application

 

[gradylaw]

Compleat 50/50 and two bottles of water wetter. So far so good.

 

[pwr2tow]

I think the key here is to use ethylene glycol based anti-freeze, no matter what the color is. The ingredients are listed on the container.



Also, if in doubt follow your owners manual instructions.



Ron

 

[Ncostello]

Dexcool is ethylene glycol... and not recommended in Diamler Chrysler vehicles. Thats why I'm saying that some ethylene glycol based coolants are not the same as others. This little bit of info is from Penray's website.



Category: Coolants

Bulletin No. 01. 010

Date: 01/12/01

Replaces: 96. 009



Introduction:

Equilon (owned by Texaco® and Shell®) markets a European coolant technology (OAT) that consists of ethylene glycol inhibited with a combination of sebacic acid and 2-ethylhexanoic acid supplemented with tolyltriazole. It was originally called "Long Life", but a lawsuit brought by Warren Oil, who markets a fully formulated coolant under the brand name "LongLife®) forced the retraction of that term form the DEXCOOL, Texaco and Caterpillar® packaging. The combination of a mono and dibasic carboxylic acids permitted Texaco to obtain a patent on the specific combination. Other companies have obtained similar patents, by varying the mixture somewhat and by using similar, but not exactly the same, chemistry.



General Motors® has been using this coolant technology in their cars and light trucks since the start-of-production of the 1996 model year vehicles (except Saturn®, which began in 1997). GMC® medium trucks equipped with Caterpillar engines, have been getting a nitrite-added form of DEXCOOL (NOAT) to insure protection against wet sleeve liner cavitation-erosion.



Frequently Asked Questions:



Can DEXCOOL organic acid antifreeze be mixed with ethylene glycol antifreeze?

It is ethylene glycol based antifreeze! The concern with mixing comes from the fact that there are very different chemical inhibitor packages in use. Most leading technologies will work very well when used as intended, typically at 50% in good quality water. If the coolants become mixed with DEXCOOL, however, one study showed a possible aluminum corrosion problem in certain situations. The other question is a concern for dilution of the protection packages. At what mix is the there too little of either inhibitor to protect the engine? As a precaution, both GM and Caterpillar instruct that contaminated systems must be maintained as if they contained only conventional coolant.



How long will it last?

Uncontaminated, the engine manufacturers instruct that it may be kept in service for 5 years or 150,000 miles in cars. In trucks, Caterpillar and GM currently recommend that the nitrited version of the coolant be run 300,000 miles or 2 years, re-inhibited with a nitrite-tolyltriazole "extender", and run to a total of 600,000 miles.



Are there different brands that meet the spec?

Yes. Any brand displaying the DEXCOOL trademark meet the spec, others advertising compatibility are from the same family of coolants.



How can a customer tell if he has DEXCOOL?

If the customer owns a GM car and has orange coolant, then its DEXCOOL! In GM trucks the coolant is "orange- red", indicating that it contains nitrite. Orange coolant in Daimler-Chrysler® vehicles is NOT Dexcool. (Daimler Chrysler owners with orange color factory coolant should consult their owners' handbooks).



Does it protect aluminum?

Yes, even though it contains no silicate, the primary aluminum protector in conventional antifreezes, published data shows that it protects aluminum.



What are the advantages of DEXCOOL compared to the previous GM 6043 factory-fill?

Compared to old-fashioned phosphated antifreeze, it may be more stable and improve water pump life. Evaluations of the two technologies to compare their respective service lives has found them comparable. In fact, a Ford Motor Company study concluded that organic acid coolants do not offer any significant advantages for the consumer over current North American coolants. In a modern car with a well maintained cooling system, current North American and OEM factory fill coolant corrosion protection can be extended far beyond previous expectations. "1



What are the disadvantages?

Higher cost, possible incompatibility, limited availability.



Is it environmentally safe?

It is ethylene glycol based. It is toxic. While it does reduce coolant waste, it is not environmentally safer than conventional EG coolant.



How can you test it?

Use a refractometer to test the freeze point. The inhibitor levels can not be cost effectively tested. If in doubt, throw it out and start over.



Should we recommend that Pencool® 2000 or Pencool 3000 be used with Dexcool?

Penray does not recommend the use of Pencool in Dexcool coolant.

 

[pwr2tow]

Confusing isn't it?



The TDR magazine says it's o. k. yet another source says not to use it, and still hard to draw a conclusion from what penray states. From what I read it would be o. k. to use it as long as you get it all out when you change over. Now others are saying it is not good because of the heater cores in the dodge application.



I put it in with the understanding that I would get all the old anti-freeze out (hence I flushed the system 3 times) I would still change it out every two years no matter what the mileage was. One might ask why I switched over in the first place if I was going to keep the same mantenance intervals as the regular stuff? Well it was because of the same confusion that is going on in this thread and I thought well if no one really knows I would just follow the TDR magazine advise and call it good. Live and learn I guess.



Also I used Havoline instead of Texaco as I reported earlier, I guess it doesn't matter which one it is though.



Guess I'll just go over to napa and buy what they recommend.



It would be nice to know for sure if I need to throw this stuff out and start over, TDR magazine says it's o. k. other say it is not.



Ron