2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Steering Wheel Clunk / Rattle : Solved With Column Bushing Fix !

[DBazley]

I'm confident there is room, you'll need to 'bend funny' because the column angles down, and if a 4x4, a step ladder -----we plan to find out soon.



One thing: some trucks (I suspect... ) have an ABS brake assembly of brake lines, etc that might be in the way, next to the intermediate shaft & the end of the column.



If anyone can confirm this, please do.



thanks David B.

 

[DBazley]

Thanks to all you guys who are chiming in about this - nice to see a need get fulfilled !



I'll make note of your interest, and either PM you when we have some made & available, or post that on this thread - something - probably by next week or slightly after.



HEMI: to answer your question, no I didn't paint my Borgeson shaft - it's stuck collapsed, so I'm using a new OEM part, which does look much beefier than my original OEM part which died.



Good idea on the 'Basement Enterprises' - I'll check that out - I would endeavor to provide an instruction sheet with color pics, naturally.



take care, David B.

 

[SMorneau]

I agree the sliding joint on the Borgeson shaft is a little tight but then the flaming river is a little loose. I got a slight clunk out of the FlamingRiver shaft so I bought a long steel shaft coupler that fit the large shaft's OD and then I tapped in a couple of ball plungers accross from each other into one end. I then put the coupler on the shaft and secured it to the large shaft leaving the end with the ball plungers hanging over the smaller shaft on the flats. I then tightened up the ball plungers to preload the play out of the sliding joint.



I forgot I did this until I read the recent post. I am glad there are some photos out there on this fix. I know there are a lot of them clunking.



Scott

 

[HEMI®Dart]

HEMI good to hear you chime in - your initial fix (along with SMorneau) helped spur us to do this - thanks !!



DB

It was all Scott's initial fix. I just found Scott's old post's and copied them. I deserve zero credit for anything.

 

[CTD12V]

4) are all trucks going to use the exact same replacement part, or are there variations to the columns?



Good question. One of us should check to see if the Dodge columns are the same for what range of years ?? It works on my '97 we can start with that year - if the part # is the same for most all 2nd gen years, the columns should be the same too, right ?



Love to hear more input from others who have observed this problem -- if you've got the clunk, you know it !



DB

This is interesting! Where is the part # on the column? I'll check my '98 if I don't have to remove the column.



I have more of an intermittent creaking problem than a clunk--do you think that is also caused by this bushing, or by the spring on shaft in the engine compartment, as suggested by others?



Good work, DBazley!



CTD12V

 

[Zombie069]

Sign me up... I'll test the in-truck replacement if need be. .

Mine's a 96 with 200k and it clunks horribly. My 96 gasser did the same thing, tho not as bad, so I never tried to investigate. With this truck, I can move the steering wheel about 1/8 inch up and down with moderate pressure. From the engine compartment I can see the slop.



Brad

 

[DBazley]

CTD: It was on a sticker, now hidden because I reinstalled it ! Alldata says it's Dodge # 4874414, manual trans w/ tilt.



I suspect they're all the same in terms of this problem - the auto trans truck simply has the column shift linkage & brackets that might require more disasembly. If yours is an auto, compare what you see at the column where it pierces the firewall to the pics I posted. Assuming you have an auto trans, the spring may be hidden.



I think the creaking may or may not be this problem, but you can try this: grab the spring and give it a twist or two, and then observe if your noise disappears at all. Scott Morneau observed that this would sometimes make the clunking disappear for a time.



Also, the spring and the bushing are part of the same assembly - the black plastic 'cup' bushing is holding a small ring style bearing on which the lower shaft rotates, all this is pressed into the sheet metal tube that is the 'outer column shell, with the spring providing the pressure to hold it all together.



What happens is over time, the plastic cup fails (impossible to see as it's inside), or the spring loses tension (hard to tell), or both, the effect is your inner shaft gains excessive play within the column 'outer shell' -the metal 'cage' looking tube, under the lower dash just between your pedals.



The only thing that explains the huge improvement in the road feel of my truck is that the inner shaft was skewing sideways within the column shell, resulting in vague steering feel. In other words, if you have the clunk, chances are you also have diminished steering precision, also.



I think it causes clunking when road shock forces travel up from the intermediate shaft - which explains why some guys put on a Borgeson aftermarket shaft (which has a stiff slider joint) and they solve one problem, loose steering, and the clunking gets worse !



I imagine it could cause this groaning noise you describe quite easily



However, you might want to check TSB's for your particular year at www.DodgeRam.info or .org that describe other noise issues, too.



Brad, keep your eyes on the thread here and I'll keep you all updated... . thanks David B.

 

[CTD12V]

Thanks, DB. Mine is a manual. I don't have the clunk, but I do have a fair amount of slop in the steering. However, I think that is from a shot gearbox, because I can grab the intermediate shaft and rotate it a few degrees without any resistance, and the steering wheel follows suit. I don't have any vertical or lateral play in the steering wheel that I can tell.

 

[DBazley]

Keep in mind, CTD12V, that the lateral play won't be noticed at the steering wheel end, because the upper thrust bearings at the top of the shaft / column usually are trouble free, it's the lower column bushing (in the engine compartment area) that develops the play.



My steering wheel was solid feeling - it didn't give away what the bad lower column bushing was doing.



To assess that, I just grabbed the spring and applied significant force - enough to rock the truck a little - in a side to side motion.



I noted enough slop that I suspected that SMorneau (the original TDR member who 'found' this problem) was right: my lower bushing was very 'loosey goosey' - allowing enough side to side play to clunk when road force was transmitted 'up' the intermediate shaft from the steering box area.



(The fact this bushing is hidden from view inside the lower column outer tube makes it difficult to suspect - 'out of sight, out of mind'. )



It might also be helpful to disconnect from the intermediate shaft when doing this check - as leaving it connected may mask exactly how much play is actually there.



I understand on the steering box - sounds like it need attention. Mine is stock & solid - here's praying the DSS keeps it that way !



DB

 

[jmolnar]

pleaseee, put me on the list, too.

 

[DBazley]

Super, guys it sounds like there is a definite need for this. We'll get down to brass tacks and make some more.



You So Cal guys who may be 'reading the mail' - if you want a bushing - installed "gratis", send me a PM if you can volunteer your truck. We want to try to do it 'on the truck' - I think we'll need two trucks, hopefully a manual and an auto trans truck. I'll reply to your PM with details - for now, it looks like my schedule will allow it on Friday or Saturday, June 9-10 - in El Cajon - [East County San Diego] at my Dad's work shop.



Take Care, David B.

 

[DBazley]

OK, for those of you who asked for more information and pics:



I just loaded all the photo's I took during the column removal & repair procedure & detailed descriptions into the album called 'Steering Column Fix' in our photo gallery.



To access, click the 'view reader's rigs gallery' link just to the left of this post, and it should come up.



Let me know if I failed to mention anything. These pics are of a Manual truck. I hope to have pics of an auto trans truck at some point.



Regards, David B.

 

[Dave M]

I would like to get on the list for a bushing. My truck is 97 3500 spd, so it should be similiar to your 97. I definately would prefer to do it with the column on the truck. I'll be watching this post carefully.



I'm still chasing the death wobble. :{



Dave

 

[JGheen]

Wish I could make it down to SD this weekend David, but I am all tied up with previous plans. I definately want to get this piece installed on my rig and am very interested in donating my truck for the "in truck" attempt. I believe it should be easily done in the truck, I think the hard part will be removing the plastic bearing cup you describe. I wonder if it can be just "broken" off :-laf since it's plastic and it will be junk anyway once removed.

Anyway, set me up for one of these bushings and maybe I can get down your way soon to get it installed. If not, PM me when the bushing is ready and you can just send it to me..... with a little pre-payment of course. :-laf



Joe

 

[ttbird]

David- please put me on your list of bushing wanter's. I'm awaiting the auto pics

cause I'm thinking there is less room around the steering shaft on an

auto than a stick but only time will tell. pm me when you have worked

out the details as far as cost etc. Thanks, Tom

 

[CTD12V]

To assess that, I just grabbed the spring and applied significant force - enough to rock the truck a little - in a side to side motion.



DB

Bingo! I found a little bit of play this morning when I did that. Not bad, but definitely there. Thanks for enlightening me! I need to get a new steering box and DSS taken care of first, but I will definitely be interested in how the "in-truck" bushing fix turns out. Maybe in a few months I'll be ready to order a bushing . . .

 

[DBazley]

OK read all your posts, very good. I think the 'clunks' are going to be silenced - it's about time ! Ha Ha - you'll have to find something else to drive you crazy.



Driving my Ram yesterday, I realized - horror - I've fixed all the problems - it handled nice, rode nice, power was awesome, no squeeks or rattles - and it scared me - I've spent three years fixing / upgrading things... now what'll I do ? (So used to problems, now they're gone, it's a Problem... . )



Ok, JGheen - No sweat on timing. If you get a window of time, pm me and we can do it when you can, or I'll take what local 'volunteers' I can and pm you later. I just won't feel good about offering it as a product, until we have a couple test trucks completely healed as well - plus pics of an auto truck taken.



I agree, as the lower OEM bushing is junk anyway, it's ok to damage it to remove it, it seems to me a slide hammer pulling screw - a nice long one 4" or so, could be inserted in between the plastic of the bushing & the metal race of it's inner bearing - and with a sharp pull, it should come loose, then you can grab the exposed edge with vise grips or pliers. Kinda brutal sounding, but for a good end ! Then drive home the new bushing..... and enjoy !

 

[wlowe]

I posted previously in another thread about a fix that may work without taking the column out of the truck. I don't know if it would work for the manual trans. but I believe it would work on the autos. The problem is having the capability to manufacture the parts. See below, post #12:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157392v

 

[gtobey]

CTD: It was on a sticker, now hidden because I reinstalled it ! Alldata says it's Dodge # 4874414, manual trans w/ tilt.



I suspect they're all the same in terms of this problem - the auto trans truck simply has the column shift linkage & brackets that might require more disasembly. If yours is an auto, compare what you see at the column where it pierces the firewall to the pics I posted. Assuming you have an auto trans, the spring may be hidden.



I think the creaking may or may not be this problem, but you can try this: grab the spring and give it a twist or two, and then observe if your noise disappears at all. Scott Morneau observed that this would sometimes make the clunking disappear for a time.



Also, the spring and the bushing are part of the same assembly - the black plastic 'cup' bushing is holding a small ring style bearing on which the lower shaft rotates, all this is pressed into the sheet metal tube that is the 'outer column shell, with the spring providing the pressure to hold it all together.



What happens is over time, the plastic cup fails (impossible to see as it's inside), or the spring loses tension (hard to tell), or both, the effect is your inner shaft gains excessive play within the column 'outer shell' -the metal 'cage' looking tube, under the lower dash just between your pedals.



The only thing that explains the huge improvement in the road feel of my truck is that the inner shaft was skewing sideways within the column shell, resulting in vague steering feel. In other words, if you have the clunk, chances are you also have diminished steering precision, also.



I think it causes clunking when road shock forces travel up from the intermediate shaft - which explains why some guys put on a Borgeson aftermarket shaft (which has a stiff slider joint) and they solve one problem, loose steering, and the clunking gets worse !



I imagine it could cause this groaning noise you describe quite easily



However, you might want to check TSB's for your particular year at www.DodgeRam.info or .org that describe other noise issues, too.



Brad, keep your eyes on the thread here and I'll keep you all updated... . thanks David B.

After reading this thread, I went out and grabbed my steering shaft just below the spring on the column and proceded to try to move it. Guess what! It moves quite a bit side to side and up and down. So that is where the rest of my play is in my steering. I just installed the DSS adjustable drag link and bracket and took it to the alignment shop where they replaced all the tie rod ends and aligned it up. It helped, but in the center of the steering, it still would wander slightly with a bit of play in the wheel. I imagine that since the play in the steering is not as bad when you are going around a curve, that the column shaft is "preloaded" to one side in the bushing. The opposing force of the vehicle trying to straighten itself out is put into the column through the steering box while you are keeping the vehicle in the turn with the steering wheel. When the steering wheel is allowed to return to the neutral or center, there are no opposing forces on the column so it is allowed to wander around in that cheap lower bushing providing an inaccurate feel depending upon changing loads from the steering box.



Mine is an '02 automatic. I need one of the bushings if you think it will fit. You can PM me and let me know if you like... .



Congratulations on a fine piece of work! I am used to industrial type steering columns with real ball or taper bearings on each end. Those rarely get play in them... Whatever possessed them to make a set up like this???

 

[DBazley]

wlowe, I recall reading your post and seeing your drawing, too.



Very nice work - I was impressed by your computer drawing skills ! But, (and I'm kinda making an educated guess here, only having seen an 'auto trans column' in pics, not in person... ) -it seems the source of the slop isn't in between the two column shift collars, it's under them in the lower column.



I can easily see how you'd think that because it's in the near identical position, just underneath !



You'll note that in that thread you just gave (It was VSSman's post) actually told us then, what has been discovered now:



"I believe the steering shafts are the same regardless of transmission type and if it's the plastic bearing I'm thinking of it's assembled when the shaft is made and probably not available as a separate part from the dealer. "



This thread you quoted is what made me develop my approach. Sounds like we're all in debt to each other !



Gtobey, glad this may adress your problem ! I think your logical analysis of what is happening inside the column makes sense.



Wouldn't it be funny - scary - if most of our steering woes turn out to be due to this obscure "lower column bushing" failure, more than steering boxes, intermediate shafts, steering stabilizer brackets, etc ? :-laf