Suncoast/ATS/DTT

[BillGotthelf]

Clint-he received the TC on Thur last week minus the other parts ATS said they would send. The company is Hemlock Transmission in Royal Palm Beach, Fla. You can reread my post again-I have no reason to lie. I can be reached anytime at 561-644-0826. (east coast time) I would like to be in Marks (owner) office when we have this conversation.

 

[Cooker]

Re: Bill G.

Originally posted by CCannon

Being dishonest and lying in a public forum can also have worse consequences and embarrassments.

It appears Clint is trying to question the intregity of Bill's comments. I wonder who is telling the truth

 

[rrausch]

Well, csutton, any good shop CAN install the ATS. But it sounded to me like this shop wanted to do more than that--it sounded to me like he wanted to be an ATS affiliate--in other words it sounded like he was trying to form a professional relationship with ATS. This is different that installing ONE transmission. Do you see the difference?



ANY successful business needs to be careful who they allow to form a professional, long term relationship with. They need to be picky. But yes, any GOOD shop CAN install the ATS.

 

[Cooker]

Originally posted by rrausch

But it sounded to me like this shop wanted to do more than that--it sounded to me like he wanted to be an ATS affiliate--in other words it sounded like he was trying to form a professional relationship with ATS.

rrausch,

I do not how how you can assume that from BillG's post? If fact I think he states quite the contrary. Reread the quote from BillG's post below.

Originally posted by BillGotthelf

ATS wanted hm to buy a minimum of two transmissions to be considered a "dealer" but my trans place wanted to see how ther parts worked before making that commitmant.

 

[BillGotthelf]

rrausch-maybe you should read the entire post before commenting. The transmission shop I talked about is a good quality shop with 12 bays, been in business for over 20 years, has some government contracts as well as major local corporations for trans work and above all they stand behind their work. Because they could not solve the problems I was having with a higher hp ctd they were willing to give one of the "names" a chance to help. As there are quite a few bombed ctd's around here the opportunity was there. Hemlock (the trans shop in question) even said they would deducted the cost of all parts from the bill I already paid and put in the parts for no charge. They wanted me to be happy. I HAVE NO REASON TO LIE ABOUT IT. My post before tells the story.

 

[rrausch]

I deduced that from the "2 transmissions". That is not ATS's policy. That information came from the shop in Fla.

 

[pwr2tow]

Originally posted by BillGotthelf

rrausch-maybe you should read the entire post before commenting. The transmission shop I talked about is a good quality shop with 12 bays, been in business for over 20 years, has some government contracts as well as major local corporations for trans work

Bill, maybe you could redirect me to the post where you say you made this statement first.



Ron

 

[ATSDiesel]

In Reply!

Thank you for your quick response. I have the orders sitting right in front of me. The order for your TripleLok was made on 2/18/2003. This also included a Calibration Kit. A second order was placed on 2/19/03 for a TripleLok Commander. Both orders made by Hemlock Mechanical Service.

They faxed me their dealer packet on 2/10/03. The first order for the TripleLok and the Calibration Kit went out on 2/18/03 UPS 2nd Day, same day it was ordered. The 2nd order for the Commander shipped out 2/19/03 UPS 2nd Day, same day it was ordered.



From our records and the UPS tracking numbers all of our information is correct. Though, I am noticing some inconsistencies with your story or at least what you have said THEY (Hemlock Mechanical Service) told you (I will speak to Hemlock directly about the inconsistencies). One thing I will not tolerate is the possibility of customers being lied to, or customers lying to me. That is not an option I will stand for, from anyone involved.

If this is a potential problem installer (dealer), it will be handled and immediately.

I will, personally, contact them first thing tomorrow morning. (02/25/03) I know my facts are right, and I promise you, I will get to the soul root of this. I have noted your number and will contact you directly if necessary. (Bill G. )

It is only fair to hear their side of the story and give them a chance to tell it. I will not be posting a response to this until I talk with them directly tomorrow morning.





Clint Cannon

ATS Diesel Performance



PS. The name I have is Mark A Critchlow / Owner and President of Hemlock. Application and Dealer Packet Filler out by Mr. Critchlow, dated, in his hand writing as 12/30/02. Faxed to me here at ATS 02/10/2003 at 14:28 MST. ATS Diesel Performance (Brandy) originally faxed the Dealer Packet to Hemlock on 12/19/2003 at 02:39pm MST.

I have ALL the original documentation.

 

[rrausch]

So the ordered it on the 18th? That is 6 days ago, not 3 weeks. I'd say somebody owes ATS an apology.

 

[barryg41]

Clint, Bill... . You need to take this problem somewhere else. It doesn't have any thing to do with the topic of this thread. I really don't care how you settle it. I don't care if Bill is wrong by one week. I think as gentlemen you can fix this problem but not here in a TDR forum.

 

[rrausch]

You know, csutton, the last I checked we still had Free Speech, and I BELIEVE I can say what it "sounds-to-me-like". I was wrong, as it turns out. It turns out they ACCEPTED Hemlock as an installer. I am sure there is more to this story, we shall find out tomorrow.



I am certainly NOT calling Bill a liar. You are reading something into my post which is not there. I said someone owes ATS an apology. Someone apparently does! Clint seems to have all the signed paperwork, with all the dates on them which support his company's position.



I don't have much interest in busting anyone. I DO have an interest in seeing ATS get a square deal, which they certainly have not gotten on this forum from the DTT crowd since day one--I was here that day, and I remember Bill K's responses to ATS's TripleLok. (He said it would never work!)



I KNOW Clint is not a liar. I've dealt with him, I've looked the man in the eye and asked hard questions. He has had the chance to mislead me and he has consistently told me the truth, even when it was NOT to his benefit! That sort of Character in a person does not come from practicing deception.



Clint & Don & Ranee have a busy business to run and they just don't have time to watch the forums all day for tech questions. If anybody has a tech question, CALL THEM. They will tell you the truth! My guess is that someone e-mailed them about this rumor and Clint got right on it. But that is only my guess.

 

[rrausch]

Thanks csutton7! I agree, lets see what happens. I don't for a minute believe either Bill G. or Clint is lying. And maybe the Florida company just misunderstood. That is possible. People DO hear things things differently. That is the value of having a signed agreement. (Don't ask me how I learned this!!)

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

All those on the sidelines of this please let Clint, Bill, and the transmission shop deal with this. Anything anyone else adds is just conjecture and will only muddy the situation and further inflame a topic that certainly needs no further heat.



-Steve St. Laurent

Lead Moderator

 

[BillGotthelf]

Steve-I'm sorry this thread turned out this way. This will be my last post in this thread. I do not like to be called a liar by anyone. Hemlock first contacted ATS in December to order parts. Also their dealer package was faxed in december also. Clint had a conversation with Mark this morning (10:00 AM our time). He refreshed Clints memory on their first conversation. It also involved some proprietary E04D transmission (info or work I'm not sure) that Hemlock had and Clint was interested in. There is no reason to lie, my only mistake was in allowing Hemlock to talk me into ATS in the first place.

 

[emjay]

Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay

I dont know where you got the transmission information from .



The Dodge lock up system is a off on system like your light switch.



Ford power strokes run a pulse-width wood signal, in other words they have a smooth engagement and different software and valve train.



A pulse-width signal on the ford powerstroke gradually increases the amount of lockup pressure.



If your Dodge is sliding into gear or having smooth engagements you are actually slipping the clutches or lock up clutch.



As you said you guys are customers and not transmission technicians and cannot sift through the technical jargon you guys are repeating.



Again , locked to locked shifting in the Dodge if your clutches are not slipping is extrememly violent.



Pulse-width conversations do not belong in the dodge transission conversation as it is related to the ford powerstroke.

Ahem, pulse width modulation is used to vary the current through a variable force solenoid. What does "wood" have to do with it? I don't know where you got your ELECTRONIC information from, Stefan. It is possible to pulse a standard off-on solenoid valve to gradually raise hydraulic pressure.



I have been designing electronic circuits and have written hundreds of thousands lines of various assembly language, C, and C++ code over the past 25 years.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Let me be very clear on this. Any further posts regarding the situation between Bill, ATS, and the transmission dealer in florida that are not from any of those three parties WILL be deleted. It is a situation between those three parties. Although we would prefer that business between parties such as this were handled between themselves both sides of this particular situation obviously want to air it in public. If they wish to discuss it here on a public forum that is their business. If they wish to take it offline at any point as we would prefer that is also their business. As I stated above, other parties on the sideline getting involved are simply adding conjecture and heat to a situation that they aren't involved in and don't have any of the facts.



Also as I had stated earlier in this thread:

Also, please stop posting things like "flame war in progress, betting on when it's going to get ugly, etc, etc". All that does is fan the flames. Any posts of that nature from here on out will be deleted because they simply perpetuate the problem.

Any posts such as that or "click it", lock it down, etc, or personal attacks on an individual will also be deleted. PLEASE TRY to keep this on a technical level and leave the emotion at home. As I have repeatedly asked on transmission posts, when you are about to post something re read it, if what you are about to post will not contribute to the knowledge base or will serve to throw fuel on the fire DO NOT HIT SUBMIT!



-Steve St. Laurent

Lead Moderator

 

[BigUgly]

SJRsCummins;

I know it's been said before on this thread, but it hasn't been said lately, so here goes... .

The best thing you can do is try and get a ride in trucks with DTT, ATS, Suncoast, BD, etc... trannys. It would be best if they were all set-up to make the same amount of power (this is where the fual adjustability of the 24V boxes comes in handy). Then, contact the transmission bulders and talk to them, Bill, Clint, someone at Suncoast and BD. Then, and only then, make up your mind.

Remember, it's going into YOUR truck, YOU make the call.

Cheers

Josiah

 

[SlyBones]

Originally posted by emjay

Ahem, pulse width modulation is used to vary the current through a variable force solenoid. What does "wood" have to do with it? I don't know where you got your ELECTRONIC information from, Stefan. It is possible to pulse a standard off-on solenoid valve to gradually raise hydraulic pressure.



I have been designing electronic circuits and have written hundreds of thousands lines of various assembly language, C, and C++ code over the past 25 years.

I am sure there are many of us on this board that have been writing hundreds of thousands of lines of code in various assembly language, C, and C++ code over the past 25 years. This does not mean that we know crap about how the transmission works.



Please explain this in transmission terms. Knowing C++ does not convince me of anything.



Based on what I read in the thread, the line pressure rise in Dodge transmissions is mechanically controlled. The switch valve that controls lockup only applies the hydraulic pressure to make lockup occur. Lets take WOT for example and use 130psi as WOT line pressure. How does pulsing the lockup switch valve change the 130psi line pressure?

 

[Strick-9]

Mike,



When dealing with a simple hyraulic system like an on-off valve and flow through a restriction. I agree with you that you can easily vary pressure by cycling the valve with a pulse width signal.



But the torque converter circuit isn't that simple circuit that you are used to. Remember you aren't going to gain any significant pressure in the converter until the clutch seals against the cover.



Furthermore, the switch valve in the valvebody is what controls lockup in the converter. The electrical signal you are playing with controls a vent on the LOCKUP valve. Not the switch valve. There is a time delay between when the vent on the lockup valve closes until the lockup valve strokes (a cavity has to fill). There is another time delay from when the lockup valve strokes until the switch valve cycles (another cavity has to fill or vent, depending on direction).



What this means is that sending a pulse width signal to the lockup solenoid with a frequency of anything over about 2 hertz would NOT cycle the switch valve. It would stay at one state.



So basically, slybones said it best. You have to understand the ENTIRE system before you can be worthwhile in the argument.



Throwing out information on simple hydraulic circuits has very little to do with this discussion.



Here's another technical point that most people are missing. RRausch originally stated that his LOCKED TO LOCKED shifts were smooth because of the pulse width signal of the ATS controller.



For that to happen, the torque converter would have to temporarily unlock before each shift. That cannot happen with the ATS commander. There is no input to the controller to tell it when the transmission is going to shift from 1st to 2nd or 2nd-3rd and so on. All it does, is force the converter to lockup at a certain speed.



Maybe they did attempt to pulse the signal to the lockup valve at some point to make the torque converter lockup smoother. That would NEVER allow smooth locked to locked shifts. They obviously discovered that didn't work for the reasons listed above.



Whoever told RRausch that a pulse width signal to the lockup valve is giving him smooth locked to locked shifts gave him FALSE information. And now RRausch is spreading this FALSE information unknowingly.



Personally, I'd like to know who told him that information so we all could question him/her instead of RRausch.



-Chris

 

[SlyBones]

So Chris, maybe you can answer my question then. How does pulsing a on/off switch valve change the pressure that is flowing thru it. Seems that the pressure coming out the other end would be 0 or it would be the pressure in the line is.



I am assuming that one side of the valve has my 130psi. How do you get the other side to see 60psi, by pulsing the switch. Can this really be averaged? Or is it by pusling it at a rate faster than the rise time of the pressure, what?