Suncoast/ATS/DTT

[LSMITH]

So the answer is NO, they don't have pulse engagement. Thanks for the answer. Nobody is gonna hit you for your answer, you were honest.

 

[Cooker]

rrausch,

Thanks for the digging to come up with the answer.

 

[csutton7]

thanks for getting the truth out--



so Stefan was right--ah yea you might say they did have a pulsey shifty thing, but since it didn't work as intended, if I'm reading this right, he is in fact more right than wrong about this-would you all agree... ..... chris

 

[rrausch]

To me this shows at least 2 strengths of ATS:

(1) Their engineering is pretty remarkable. They actually affected the TripleLok TC Clutches, through the on/off Dodge Valve Body with their Digital Controller which did send a "pulse".

(2) They are not welded to their ideas or their creations. If they spend some time and money on something, and it doesn't work great, they find another way or a better way.



And yes, I should have checked with them before I posted!

 

[rrausch]

Since I wrote these posts, I spoke with Clint Cannon. He told me they got the Digital Controller to do a good job of "Pulse Engagement", but found it wasn't necessary, because they found they could do the same thing by orificing the Valve Body, thus taking care of it hydraulically. He said they found no real advantage to having it pulse.

 

[SlyBones]

This is in interest of learning things, and not continuing any debate.



I thought stefan was talking about the fact that line pressure in a Ford was electronically controlled, and the hydraulic pressure that applied the lockup clutch could be electronically controlled. This was what was referred to as pulse engagement and we cant have this. In our transmissions line pressure is mechanical.



What I read here is ATS was pulsing the signal to the switch valve that controls when line pressure is applied. The line pressure itself is what ever it is at that time. Correct?



So what would be the purpose of trying to pulse that?



I could see that unlocking the TC before the shift and then locking back up again right away may be a nice way to get what would feel like a lock to lock shift, if it could be timed just right. Dont know that I would call this pulse engagement though. But an interesting idea? Isnt this the way the factory PCM works on a 24v? I thought I read once they will lock in 3rd and then unlock, shift to 4th, and relock even with the OD button off ( unlike my older 12v factory programming ). This true?

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

thouse,



For what its worth both Bill's AMERICAN business partner and Bill work for a living just like everyone else. As much as i have tried to convince them i can work from my cell phone in Hawaii, they just arent buying it.







rausch,



Exactly as we thought.

thanks for the response.

 

[Turbo Thom]

... ... ... I just read the whole thing and in my truck is a South Bend CON O..... I guess I love to punish myself.



Please , stick to the tech stuff.



. PT. .

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Slybones,



Bill explained it to me like this, line pressure on both the ford and the dodge is mechanically regulated using a spring.



Line pressure rise is controlled mechanically on a dodge via kick down cable. In other words as you step on the throttle the pressure goes up or down depending on your foot.



The ford power stroke line pressure is controlled electronically using a pulse-width signal .



Well have a nice weekend guys , i going to the gym.

 

[jimk]

convertor

At what rpm can each of the converters go to lock up and hold under full throttle. I have a stock transmission so I all ways let up before I go to lock up.

Will each hold at peak torque. Does rpm factor into the percentage of converter efficiency, if so what is the rpms that is used 1700, 2000 or some other number.

What are the pros and cons for locking and unlocking the converter between each gear. thanks for the info jimk

 

[LSMITH]

Jimk, a book could be written on your questions since the companies differ in how they look at things. The best thing for you to do so you get ACCURATE answers to your questions is to call the companies and get thier take on your questions. They will be different no dout, but it will give you a good idea of who understands what YOU want and what THEY provide. I think toll free numbers are available for all of the major players except Goerend Brothers. Take the time to find out who makes what you want, otherwise you can spend a TON of freakin money doing it two or three times.

 

[jimk]

transmission

Originally posted by LSMITH

Jimk, a book could be written on your questions since the companies differ in how they look at things. The best thing for you to do so you get ACCURATE answers to your questions is to call the companies and get thier take on your questions. They will be different no dout, but it will give you a good idea of who understands what YOU want and what THEY provide. I think toll free numbers are available for all of the major players except Goerend Brothers. Take the time to find out who makes what you want, otherwise you can spend a TON of freakin money doing it two or three times.

I was interested 3 years ago, but to be honest I could have spent a small fortune since then. At first it was told to buy just a converter and a valve body and added to a new factory transmission. It that time I decided to wait and see what develops. In about 3 years or so I have seen the transmission being changed a lot. Now there is a lot more on the market so as long as my transmission is working like it is I will continue to read and study the changes until my transmission goes out. Or I decide to buy a 5 speed truck and just read the forums for fun.

Thanks again jimk

 

[fest3er]

Re: convertor

Originally posted by jimk
At what rpm can each of the converters go to lock up and hold under full throttle. I have a stock transmission so I all ways let up before I go to lock up.
Will each hold at peak torque. Does rpm factor into the percentage of converter efficiency, if so what is the rpms that is used 1700, 2000 or some other number.
What are the pros and cons for locking and unlocking the converter between each gear. thanks for the info jimk

I can tell you that, when the trans is well adjusted, the stock TC in the stock trans with a stock VB, will hold whatever torque a stock 12V with 215 injectors only can give it, in direct, TC locked, starting from 25MPH up to high idle, going up a 5%-7% grade with hairpin turns. The AFC is also set stock. I drive it like this every time I drive up or down VA-311 between Roanoke and I-64. Boost peaks at 18-20, and EGT peaks around 900 post-turbo.

Of course, let the fluid level drop a pint or two and all bets are off. Mis-adjust the TV cable and all bets are off. You shouldn't ask how I know.

They hold nicely at 172 RWHP. Would they hold at 200? 250? 300? Higher? I couldn't tell you.

Fest3er

 

[rrausch]

I really urge anybody who is a beginner with Automatic transmissions, if you are considering an aftermarket Trans or an aftermarket re-build, to EDUCATE yourself about the Dodge Transmission.



Find out what the TC & VB do.

Find out what Line Pressure does.

Find out why TC clutch lining is important.

Find out what the Stator does.

The above 4 questions will get you started. If you ask several vendors these 4 questions, you will learn a lot.



Call the vendors. Ask them ALL YOUR QUESTIONS. In doing so, you will learn a lot. Then call them back. Ask them ANOTHER BUNCH OF QUESTIONS.



In doing this 2 things will happen. 1. You will learn a lot. 2. You will get a feel for the people you feel most comfortable with.



Knowledge is money in your pocket at the end of the day.

Clint or Don at ATS are always eager to answer any questions. And they won't pressure you. ATS, in Denver, is 1-800-949-6002

 

[pwr2tow]

rrausch,

Very good advice.



To everyone else, remember to ask the same questions to each and everyone you call. Write your questions down ahead of time so you can ask each one the exact same question, if the answers get veried off for some reason call the others back and ask them about what was just said. This may take some time to get a good feel of the one you want to deal with in the end, but what price would you put on your time if your spending upwards of $3,500. 00.



Ron

 

[BillGotthelf]

Since this thread started out about the major auto trans builders or parts suppliers I would like to relate my latest experience. I have been building up my 99 and had my local trans shop build my trans. They had problems handling the power but the owner said he had heard some things about DTT and did not like the way his buildups handled the power. He contacted ATS to become a dealer and obtain a TC and other parts for my truck. Ats told my trans place that they had some new parts they were getting to help the problems he relayed to them about my system. ATS wanted hm to buy a minimum of two transmissions to be considered a "dealer" but my trans place wanted to see how ther parts worked before making that commitmant. They said they would sent the appropriate parts to "fix" my trans. While waiting for these parts I explained to my trans place that the TC was slipping something fierce with the tst power setting above 3. So they called ATS and ordered a triple loc TC. ATS said they would ship eveything together. My trans place used a credit card to order and called evey few days to check on order (caused I bugged them) 3 weeks after order TC showed up with no other parts. By now both my trans place and I are feed up. Sent back TC. Since I have a DTT TC in my 96 and with all the abuse I give it it still working good pulling 14,000 lb fifth wheel.

I called DTT and asked for and got Bill K. I explained problem and he explained what I should do including waiting a week to obtain new parts designed to increase pump pressure. I then ordered what Bill suggested and he made sure to tell me to have my trans guy call him prior to install to get instructions for his parts.

I violated one of my rules by trying to go somewhere else when I was happy with someones parts to begin with. In my other life I am a general contractor and have a good reputation for customer service. I have found that some vendors (Geno's, TST and Piers) deal with you fairly and take care of you and even if I find it cheaper somewhere else I will still buy it from them. DTT and Bill K I'm sorry I let someone else talk me into trying something else. That won't happen again.

 

[rrausch]

I don't know the specifics of why your installer couldn't get approved by ATS, but it sounds like that is what happened. It sounds like ATS didn't want to accept the guy as an installer. I know they have high standards for their installers.



If I was going to go into business with someone, I'd want them to have sound business judgement, as shown by their current business... I'd want them to have a sound financial background, with no bankruptcies, etc. etc. Technical knowledge has to be there too etc. I'd run a credit check etc. I know there was a case before, where somone posted here on the TDR that ATS wouldn't accept his chosen installer and it turned out the installer was working out of his garage!



The important thing is you have a Transmission that you love. Good!

 

[propuller]

thats a good reason to let the customer hanging for 3 weeks while his transmission gets worse. i cant say enough good things about dtt bill & stephan have treated me (2001 ctd) & my father (97ctd) with the greatest respect that a paying cusomer should get but thats only half of it. the transmissions are bulletproof id put my truck up against any other vendors trucks out there when it comes down to taking abuse. dtt all the way. keep up the good work stephan & bill. propuller.

 

[csutton7]

this is way to funny--just awhile back it was blasphemous to think that DTT wouldn't let just anyone install their product--they had to pass the mustard test---and how any ol Joe Shmoe could install a ATS setup----- now rrausch you're singing that song you guys so behemently stomped into the ground about DTT and their installers-----you guys shouldn't state things that you have no clue about--



rrausch said:

"I don't know the specifics of why your installer couldn't get approved by ATS, but it sounds like that is what happened. It sounds like ATS didn't want to accept the guy as an installer. I know they have high standards for their installers. "



-you could be right, but you could be totally wrong also.

 

[ATSDiesel]

Bill G.

Bill Gotthelf:



I am very concerned with what you have written and the experience you say you and your local transmission shop had with ATS.

With the lack of information given (for instance, no specific details: dates, time, name of local transmission shop, who was the contact at ATS, ect…) I am having a very tough time understanding how this could have happened and not been brought to my attention sooner.

It is not and never has been our policy or procedure to tell a shop they ‘have’ to order a minimum of 2 transmissions. This statement is the beginning to a list of questions I want and need answers to. There are a number of issues and concerns that I feel would be best handled by you contacting either Ranee or myself directly here at ATS. No different than you contacting DTT directly. All I ask is equal opportunity and fair treatment. That is not asking too much. Taking into consideration the time and effort you put toward this, then taking the time to post it in the TDR and other Diesel Forums, still with no contact at all to ATS.

If, in fact, this is reality, I have many concerns and questions I would like to directly ask the local transmission shop you are referring to. I know you can understand my position and reasons without going into great detail in a public forum.

It seems to me you want to keep the shops name confidential, which I can respect. I would greatly appreciate you contacting, again, Ranee or myself, so this incident can be investigated and proven as fact.

Since I do not have your name in my database (Bill Gotthelf) and the shop supposedly called and gave a CC number, the order information will be under the ‘local’ transmission shop’s name. We can and need to start there.

Violating one’s own rules can bring very disappointing results to all involved. Being dishonest and lying in a public forum can also have worse consequences and embarrassments.

I have no records of a TripleLok being sent back unused, which is what you said. I, as well, have no record of a customer having to wait 3 weeks for a Dodge Transmission. With your posting location being Loxahatchee, FL, I assume when you said ‘local transmission shop’, that it is with in a fairly close vicinity of you. I have three existing shops that could be considered ‘local’ for you. I have all the records and orders, ALL showing NO RETURNS OF UNUSED PRODUCTS.

One of our strong reputations is customer service, and always has been. If indeed this happened and in the way you say it did, details need to be given to fix ANY existing problems. You have my attention, now I deserve details.



Please pm or call me at your earliest convenience. There are 2 toll free numbers at your disposal that I would happily give you to contact us direct. Thank you for your time and integrity concerning this matter.





Clint Cannon

ATS Diesel Performance