Suncoast/ATS/DTT

[rrausch]

Yes & no fortunate1. Which system you go with also makes a difference. ANY decent shop can install the ATS system, no special training required, because the TripleLok and VB and Controller, and all the many, many strengthened internal parts are included. It is a pretty straightforward rebuild, pretty much plug and play, except the shop is plugging in the strongest parts available. My understanding of most of the other Trans Rebuilders is either the installer has to be specially trained, (DTT), or the other companies out there don't include most of the internal re-engineered, hardened, strengthened parts which ATS does.

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

rrausch,



Again, i don't know where you are getting your information or if you are even serious but in your signature you list your truck as a 1995. 1995 transmissions shift points are mechanically controlled using governor weights to control governor pressure, which in turn controls the first 3 gears and electrically controls 4th gear and lock up.



If someone is telling you that they are controlling the shift feel during locked to locked shifts electronically they are blowing smoke. If your shifts are smooth during locked to locked shifts you are slipping the clutches.



Even if you could control your line pressure electronically in the Dodge Diesel (which you cannot), you would still be slipping your clutches in order to achieve the smooth shifts.



Just because someone is telling you that is how they do it doesnt make it true.



rrausch, if you really want learn the truth about whether your transmisison has electronically controlled pressures or mechanical control you can do a test to find out.



The Dodge Diesel uses a kickdown cable to control line pressure, you guys that dont believe me look under your truck. The cable attached from your throttle valve lever on the injection pump to the throttle valve lever on the driver side of the transmission should not exist if you have this so called pulse-width engineered Dodge unit.



On a Ford power stroke they do not use a kickdown cable. Same for the new GM Duramax.

 

[rrausch]

Stefan, if you don't understand the way the ATS system works, call Don Ramer or Clint Cannon and ask them. I am sure they will explain it to you.



With the ATS Electronic Controller the lock-up is adjustable. From a knob on the dash, I can set my TC to lock up at any speed from about 20 mph on up... and yes I have a 1995 2500. 47RH

 

[rrausch]

"which in turn controls the first 3 gears and electrically controls 4th gear and lock up. "--posted by Stefan



You & your Dad are wrong about this. Not in the ATS Stage IV with the Electronic Controller. Lock-up is controlled as I have described above. Please re-read. If you still doubt that the ATS TripleLok can be set to lock up at any speed, do call 1-800-949-6002



Whether one would consider it a "smooth" lock-up or a "tight" lock-up I guess depends on the seat of your pants. It is firm I guess, without being violent. When it locks up it will definitely throw your butt back in the seat if you've got the pedal floored. There is nothing mushy about it at all. Yet I don't believe a single one has failed yet, so it must be pretty strong too.

 

[Jetpilot]

764 Horsepower 1570 pounds of torque, 12. 10 @ 117 mph in the 1/4 mile. DTT still going strong! Gotta love it.



Doug

 

[rrausch]

Amen Jet Pilot!

I have never said DTT wasn't great.

I am simply defending ATS, which gets many attacks on the TDR.

Undeservedly.

 

[LSMITH]

Originally posted by rrausch

It is a pretty straightforward rebuild, pretty much plug and play, except the shop is plugging in the strongest parts available. My understanding of most of the other Trans Rebuilders is either the installer has to be specially trained, (DTT), or the other companies out there don't include most of the internal re-engineered, hardened, strengthened parts which ATS does.

So it sounds like you are sticking with the tolerances similar to what you would get right from Dodge? One transmission could be tight and the other loose? You could hold insanely tight tolerances on the upgraded parts and still have a sloppy transmission if the rest was not addressed in the build right? I have several customers that build internals for our trannies for Dodge, I know what type of tolerances are held and the ramifications of that in a build. Not a flame, just curious to what the advantage of "plug and play" could be.

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

rrausch,



I dont know how else to say this so i am going to try one more time, the information you are repeating is wrong. The KNOB YOU ARE TURNING is controlling the speed at which the lock up clutch is comming in. Why is this so amazing, Smart Controller owners have been doing this for over 2 years now.



Your lockup pressures are controlled mechanically. You are not helping your vendor by sticking to this line, i know you said you are just a customer and i can see you are a faithful one by your words and you are happy with your product and that is good. But what you are saying is not mechanically possible, again you are not helping your vendor by keeping on with this. If your locked to locked shifts are smooth you are slipping your clutches.

 

[Diesel Freak]

Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay

If your locked to locked shifts are smooth you are slipping your clutches.

LOL... even us manual guys can understand this one!

 

[Snow man]

Man this thread is getting interesting. rraush,I 'd like to know how ATS controller manages to pulse engage the tc using the stock switch valve,and just their controller. Even if this is what they are doing,do you really want your truck to shift smooth locked to lock at the expense of trans,and tc life. Is the ATS fluid coupling that loose where you need to drive around locked shifting? Is there ever a time when an ATS trans shifts firm and positive?If the locked shfits are smooth,well the shifts in fluid coupling cannot be any rougher. Im not try to be a pain,but it just sounds a lot like a stock trans that can take a lot more power to me. I didnt like my stock trans much at all,it was way smooth for me.

 

[aharrow]

I've been reading all these battles back and forth the one thing that I can say about Bill and his company DTT is customer service. I installed his VB in my trans and any time I had a question which their was a lot of them seeing how this was the first time I ever dropped the trans in one of these trucks I called and Bill talked me through it and when his shop closed for the day he gave me his cell number and insisted that I call him even though I didn't want to bother him on his own time that's customer commitment to me Aaron

 

[rrausch]

OK... First of all LSMITH... Plug & Play... This was my phrase not ATS's.

I meant it to describe the fact that with ATS the TripleLok TC, which is the heart of the system, can be shipped anywhere, along with the VB and the other upgraded parts, and ANY GOOD SHOP CAN INSTALL THEM! The installer doesn't need to be specially trained. This is a plus.



SNOWMAN... you wanna know how ATS pulse engages... call 'em and ask 'em!

I'm sure Don or Clint will explain it to you. 1-800-949-6002 Cause it does!

Shifting locked is NOT going to hurt the TripleLok TC. That baby won't slip up to 1740 Ft. Lbs. of Torque. Extra clutches/steels ARE installed in the clutch packs to increase duty cycles. SNOWMAN, my stock trans was mushy too This turned into snappy after ATS.



Diesel Freak... Stefan... I used the term "smooth" to counter DTT information that ATS locked shifts were, to use Stefan's word, "violent" ATS Locked shifts are not violent. Neither are they smooth. They ARE firm and quite quick, and will push your butt back in the seat if the pedal is down, if not they won't.

 

[BillGotthelf]

Well I have read this thread from begining to end. Ho Boy. I spend my hard earned dollars on my trucks-no sponsorship here. Sure sounds interesting. My 96 is running a DTT tc with some of his vlave body upgrades. Been in there for over 3 years pulling 13,000+ pounds. Still love that TC today. My 99's trany was rebuilt by my local (friend) trans shop and it sucks. Pedal to the floor off the line and it won't shift out of first-lift off pedal it shifts-lock up is a joke as it just spins from the torque. He has contacted ATS and ordered a vb and tc. It did not matter to me as long as they work. My 99 is my hot rod and I want the trany to act like it. I'm not here endorsing any trans just my own observations.

 

[Snow man]

rrausch,thank you for the reply. You answered my biggest question. The shifts sound just like mine are. I cant speak for everyone but so far locked shifting hasnt hurt my TC one bit. Time will tell,I guess.

 

[rrausch]

BillGothelf... GOOD FOR YOU! You are happy with your DTT. It is a good product.



I am happy with my ATS. It is also a good product, of course I may say it is a GREAT PRODUCT from time to time... but I am prejudiced. AS WE ALL ARE WHO PAY $3,000+ for a trans upgrade. Once you open your wallet that wide, you are automatically prejudiced toward the trans upgrade of your choice. Get used to it!



Snow Man, that TripleLok has clutch material made of a Kevlar composite, that, plus the amount of clutch area is pretty strong medicine against damage.



Now lets all enjoy the game.

 

[SlyBones]

Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay

Any transmission shifting locked to locked no matter whos it is a violent action on the hard parts and the clutch packs of the transmisisons.

rraush, DTT's information was that shifting locked to locked was violent on the hard parts and clutch packs of the transmission. I bet if you stuck accelerometers on the internal hard parts and in the seat of the truck, the hard parts are suffering far worse that what our butt feels.



Personally I would like to know how adding the extra clutches increases duty cycles?

 

[rrausch]

Posted by SlyBones: "Personally I would like to know how adding the extra clutches increases duty cycles?"



Think of it this way... more clutches mean more clutch area. More clutch area means the clutches last longer. Lasting longer means more duty cycles. I'm sure if I am wrong about this someone will correct me! Attempting to correct Rausch has been a popular pastime on this thread.



I said "disinformation" because of Stefan's characterization of the "violent" nature of shifting locked, and so I posted something about thte ATS shifting "smooth and acceptable" then DTT flamed me for saying it was smooth! There was a lot of condemnation of ATS and very little attempt by DTT people to try to understand.

I REPEAT... my ATS TripleLok shifts locked nice & firm & quick. Never violent. I suppose some OTHER Triple Disk TC's might shift violently, I don't know, but the ATS is strong yet civilized. It will shift really firm if I have the pedal down, or it will shift locked almost un-noticeably if I am just driving normally. But most of the time I don't shift locked.



Well, in regards to the "violent action"... I dunno what more to say. DTT people say they doubt that the ATS Pulse Engages upon Lockup. It is apparent to me, every time my TC locks up under heavy throttle that this is what is happening. Don & Clint can explain exactly how it does it. Call 'em. 1-800-949-6002

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Shifting locked is NOT going to hurt the TripleLok TC. That baby won't slip up to 1740 Ft. Lbs. of Torque.



So who made that, and did they do it in front of a crowd... ..... May Madness or Muncie would do!

 

[rrausch]

I don't believe either Don or Clint's truck will put out 1740 Ft. Lbs. of Torque, so no it probably wasn't done at May Madness. Don's truck did make over 500 HP at May Madness last year, if I remember right. And 1170 Ft. Lbs. of Torque if I remember right.



The 1740 Ft. Lbs. number comes from some tests they ran to see at what level of torque the TripleLok would slip.

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by rrausch

so no it probably wasn't done at May Madness. Don's truck did make over 500 HP at May Madness last year, if I remember right. And 1170 Ft. Lbs. of Torque if I remember right.

Nope your not remembering right, I don't remember the exact number myself but it wasn't over 500hp, that much I do know. I wasn't physically standing in the dyno room when they dynoed the ATS trucks, but yes I was at May Madness.





Does anyone have the number handy?