The big-honkin' project from hell - it's time!

["Mad Max"]

personal opinions are the best

yeah but it's the personal opinions that I rely on the most



Well I've been doing some serious digging and have come across some interesting stuff. To my disbelief, according to Advanced adaptors they don't make any adaptors for Dodges. Nice. So, I need to ask if anyone out there in 4x4 land has sucessfully mated a NP205 (one that was mated originally) to the back of a 2nd gen '4x4' auto (that used to have a 241)?



Can't use the 241 because my front D60 has the pumpkin on the p-side; the 241 swings to the d-side. So much for that idea.



I basically have two options:



1. Get a 47re with a mated 241, lose the 241, and bolt up a mated 205. That is my preferred option, I just don't know if it can be done. Advanced Adaptors seems to think that if the 47RE has a mated t/c then the bolt pattern for the older mated 205 should line right up (not sure I really trust that though).

2. Get a 2wd 47re and use my current divorced 205 and make a really short intermediate shaft. Personally I'd like to lose the shaft and mate the components together, but I might not have the choice.



The 4x4 shops out here also can't tell me if I can mate a 'mated' 205 to the back of a '4x4' 47RE.



Nothing's easy, but we'll figure this one out.

- S

 

[cerberusiam]

1. Don't get a 47RE, not a lot of options for shift control, get a 47RH.



2. My understanding is if you have a 518 mated to a 205 the 618 is a bolt in option.



Some of you guys that have done this chime in here.

 

[bgilbert]

Nascar Mark just upgraded to a 2nd gen lockup auto, he has a 4x4. Might PM him find out what he did.

 

["Mad Max"]

roger that -

Thanks Bill - I actually did talk to ole Mark this afternoon and the guys at DTT. Looks like I'm looking for, specifically, a 2nd gen transmission front half, a 1st gen overdrive unit (which DTT has already), and a mated NP205. So, anyone out there have either a 2nd gen auto front half and / or a mated NP205 t/case?



The controls for the lock-up converter are pretty simple, and I'm going to try to have a unit made that will automatically disengage the converter when the rig comes back to an idle - else the truck will stall when you come to a stop. Might be a little bit of training required, but the rewards I think are far better.

- Gonzo

 

["Mad Max"]

R&D continues...

Sorry fellas - please ignore the new post I just sent - we'll keep this one going.



Okay peoples, here's the plan for the big beastie - please tell me what you think.



Engine - Power as is or better @ 253 hp/630 tq at tires.

transmission - 47RE 4x4, DTT-built

Trans case - Mated NP205

Axles:

- Front: D60 dually, 4. 10's

- Rear: D80 dually, 4. 10's, lim slip, ABS

Additionally:

- Gear Vendor o/d (on back of t/case)

- Exhaust brake



Primary use - Highway hauling. Max trailer weight at +/- 10k lbs. Max gross weight including rig will be about 18k lbs.



Thoughts: I can't find a way to alter the 1st and 2nd gear ratios in the auto. So, I need 4. 10's. Hauling my trailer out here from Cali, with the 3. 54's, sucked (on take-off and around town). Way too tall a gear when in first, and I can't find a way to get taller first and second gears that would compare to having a granny low in a 5-speed, so, that means going up in the diff gears to 4. 10's, and adding the GV to bring the highway rpm's back down. Without an additional overdrive top speed would be limited even with DTT transmission. I want to be able to cruise at 75 mph at about 2000 rpm hauling the trailer. After doing the math I'll need the GV o/d to do that. I'm not worried about its strength. I surfed the 2ng gen threads and they generally really like the GV units. There were exhaust brake issues but they were solved.



So, I'd end up with big power, a full tilt auto with lock-up converter, plus an additional overdrive and a gear splitting capability, and 4. 10's to get the big dog moving easily. I like the sound of that and I think the stress on the driveline would be less with the steeper gears.



Considering the rig will be 21' long, weigh over 7000 lbs, and will be hauling a 33' long trailer, I think this setup would be just the ticket. When I need 4wd, it'd be there with the bullet proof 205 and a front D60 with lockouts, and tall gears, and I really like that.



So, there it is - that's my plan. I need y'all's input as to any pitfalls you can think of. In addition, I really appreciate all the PM's and advice that you have provided me - it has really helped me get this rig built 'on paper', and I'm very much excited about driving it in about a year. Only thing is, man, there are going to be a lot of switches and gadgets to make this thing work - but hey, I like switches!! ... and I need more gauges too... . hmmm, what can I tap in to... well, that's the fun part.



- Gonzo

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Has anyone looked into using a set of 3:73's in our Dana 70's.

I think that would be the best compromise for our trucks.....

Also Sam, you might try to tweak another 40 RWHP or so. That will make a difference in your ability to get the load rolling and perhaps keep you from really big $$ on a GV unit.



Just a thought... .



pb...

 

[dpuckett]

I agree with Pastor Bob- an extra 40-50hp isnt that big a deal anymore, and it sounds like your drivetrain should be able to handle it. But, the extra gear on top of the 4. 10s would be better for cruising out west. Posted limit of 75; actual limit somewhere around 85. Cousin tells me you can go 95+ at night. Aint tested that theory myself, though.



IF you decide to go with 4. 10s, I'll take the 3. 54 R&P off your hands. I also know a good shop to do it if you dont want to tackle it yourself. I also know where NOT to go, as well.



From my research of a few years ago (when I got my first set of 4. 10s), I like the USGear OD better- all gears, no clutches to burn up, higher GCVWR, and they seem to be a little less expensive, if memory disserves, though senior moments are already starting.



But, if you really want to spend money, I'll hold out my collection bucket, too. :-laf



Daniel

 

["Mad Max"]

only once...

Thanks Pastor, Dan. Fortunately there isn't really a bad way to go. Both directions will rock - matter of useability.



What about exhaust brakes - one of the main reasons for doing all this is woah power and stability on the hills, plus extended brake life. I've surfed the website on PacBrake - nice stuff. Anyone have a brake on a 1st gen out there and have good/bad experiences to share?

- One of my questions is how does it bolt in? Do you have to modify the existing exhaust to make room? I'm building a full custom 4" exhaust anyways so that isn't a concern, but I'm wondering about how it all bolts up.

- Also, how big is the piping? 3", 4"? Are there options?



- Are there any engine mods (ex valves, etc etc) that have to be done on a 'higher mileage' engine like mine w/ 240k on the ticker to ensure the brake works at peak performance?



For the 1st gens, I believe PDR has a nice down pipe, and it looks like the the ex brake goes inline under the down pipe???



On the money side, I think I'm going to get a whole lot more rig, and a much more flexible rig, for less than 1/2 the $ of a new one. My whole goal all along is to build a 4wd 'RV' pickup capable of towing anything to anywhere, hauling 3 of my best friends and their gear, with lots of room and in total comfort, with virtually unlimited power and a bullet proof driveline. That will cost some $ but no where near the current $45k for a compareable truck, and I can definitely dig that! Plus, repairs will be lots cheaper since I;ll be doing all the work - I sure don't want to think about repairing the driveline or body on a new one (ouch!).



This am I scored my second 40/20/40 seat off of ebay for the back seat - $251. 00 - yeah buddy - reclinable seats and center console in the back for the buds to sleep on the way to the Mopar Nats on '05 (the rigs planned debut show).



The D70 with 3. 54's will be up for grabs as soon as all this nonsense actually gets phisically going - what a rig it's gonna be.



Ahhhh, such fun.....

- Gonzo

 

[bgilbert]

Sam, I hope we get to see pics of your 'cherry' 85 crewcab before you start with the monster garage. I'm waiting... . lol

 

["Mad Max"]

Pics of the donors -

... well I finally got a few pics of the donor dually rig. It's actually not a bad truck at all, save for the anemic 360 gasser between the fenders, and the lack of 4WD, and no air bags, and no automatic, and no Dana 80, and no, and no... . sheesh, guess it's not such a great truck after all... But, it DOES have a cherry Texas/California body, cab, and frame, which was worth the $3k to begin with.



PS: A mated NP205 unit from behind a '92 CTD is in my garage (from Utah), the front half of a '98 47RE is on its way (from Arizona), a D80 dually is being built locally, and a custom Kelderman 4-link front and rear air bag suspension is being developed. There are a couple other BOMBs going on too. Truck is gonna be badazz...



I'll keep this thread updated as I go amigos.



- Gonzo.

 

[jmeehan]

For your exhaust brake you can go with a 4" or 5" inline, I think BD builds both. You'll need heavier exhaust valve springs for maximume braking.

Have you considered using a US Gear under drive bolted between your transmission and T case? That would let you keep your 3. 54's and you'd have 8 forward gears in 4WD

 

["Mad Max"]

parts is parts

well amigos, the used hardware is rolling in, almost literally:

The list of core parts includes:

- 47RE transmission w/ lock-up converter from a '98 CTD - shipped from Arizona

- NP 205 xfer case from a '92 CTD auto - shipped from Utah

- Dana 80 dually rear axle w/ 4. 10's, ABS, limited slip, and discs - I believe from an '01 CTD - don't know where it shipped from...

-- My diff guy thinks the axle should be nearly good to go with just a freshening of bearings and checking the r & p. The x-case should be in good shape, but the transmission is a pure core with all parts. Each piece will be thoroughly torn apart and inspected, and the transmission will go to a DTT dealer in Greeley CO for that magic touch. The x-case will get disected and perfected, and will bolt right to the back of the DTT-supplied o/d.

Piece by piece. I'll have pics soon of the hardware, but in the end it'll all add up to, for my needs, the perfect rig.



I want to take a moment to say a very hearty 'Thanks!' to all of you out there in TDR land, and especially to the Hot Rod Diesel Team at PDR (Marko and Bob - you guys Rock). All of you have really helped me through some extensive R&D, and have put up with my never-ending questions and clarifications and double-checks. I really appreciate your help and can't wait to seriously begin this Monster Garage project of mine. Getting core parts is easy, so that part begins soonest. In talking with y'all and listening to your experience and insight I have gained insight about this hobby that many car clubs and motorheads just don't see. That is unfortunate, but the 'openness' and willingness to help in the TDR is second to none.



Many thanks amigos,

- Sam