Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) The Search for Max H.P. 24 Valve

[sbentz]

Were these numbers tested to simulate Boosted conditions or the typical draw thru type tests?

Interesting to see the information coming out here. There is a lot of talk about a turbo'd engine vs. a NA (natural aspirated) port flow and need from a design standpoint. I agree that the basic 24V (and 12V for that matter) is poor from an intake side design due to the pushrod placement.



Heck, we even joked about reversing the air flow, with a special cam, due to the excellent exhaust port design would do better being used as a intake, and then use the intake to drive the chargers with a simple log bolt on type manifold. (Easy for a dragster application, tough for a street truck)...



Comp, when you built the head, make it tall enough to bury a camshaft in it to get the pushrods out of the way, and then the sky's the limit.

 

[COMP461]

This was a stock head with porting, and stock valves, I have rounded up the head where I water jetted it to a bunch of pieces, and plan on painting it and such to contract the structure, and post these pictures. The aftermarket casting is going to have to fit certain parameters to be worth the money it is taking to build it.



FIRST fit on as many year model trucks as possible with minimal modification



SECOND flow great numbers, but still maintain some sort of swirl for mild trucks,



THIRD use stock valve train parts and valves



The option to this head will be removal of the intake and a bolt on intake. This will let the head gurus do their number. If the market dictates, the head might be offered in a race version, but the numbers need to do an additional casting would not warrant this I’m sure. We have continued work on the one off aluminum billet. But it look like it will be way on down the road, I can only push so hard





Have you looked at a Duramax head lately

 

[RacinDuallie]

Comp, when you built the head, make it tall enough to bury a camshaft in it to get the pushrods out of the way, and then the sky's the limit.

Scott,
Thank you! You feel my pain for raising that spring seat up for *meatier* ports!
( Longer length valves) This would be money in the bank!! That's why my question of port volume was asked- # of CC's would give us a clue as to what seems to be the coming future if Greg is right with what's coming out- ( I'm fishing for the # here! anybody that spends time working with heads can relate to the answer- if we get the correct one??)

And yes this HAS gotten VERY INTERESTING!!!

 

[RacinDuallie]

This was a stock head with porting, and stock valves, I have rounded up the head where I water jetted it to a bunch of pieces, and plan on painting it and such to contract the structure, and post these pictures. The aftermarket casting is going to have to fit certain parameters to be worth the money it is taking to build it.

FIRST fit on as many year model trucks as possible with minimal modification

SECOND flow great numbers, but still maintain some sort of swirl for mild trucks,

THIRD use stock valve train parts and valves

The option to this head will be removal of the intake and a bolt on intake. This will let the head gurus do their number. If the market dictates, the head might be offered in a race version, but the numbers need to do an additional casting would not warrant this I’m sure. We have continued work on the one off aluminum billet. But it look like it will be way on down the road, I can only push so hard


Have you looked at a Duramax head lately

Greg,
Do you mean the stock head without intake removal to allow for intake port work-right?
Was the stock valves as delivered or did you play with them too?
Its amazing to see how you can pick up the flow JUST by having a couple of *extra* cuts put in... .
Think of the flow increase alone just by executing a standard performance backcut... . not bad for 1 cut... ...


Even the head that's on my 53 block pictured with the Thermal Barrier Coating was purchased ported from one of the big name shops. But that doesnt mean that I didnt take it all apart and did a few things..... Sure I could have bought a stock head and done it myself- and I did try to just get it with the bowl work done on it only- I wanted to tackle the exhaust ports myself- but that was the only way they had them priced so I paid for the (what I consider) time savings.
*But that doesn't mean that when I got it I didn't take it apart for a *look*- Yes I spent some time working the cylinder head too- see that's the thing -just to go out and pay for a ported head doesn't mean your getting the most optimum flowing head- there is always room for improvment on all parts purchased. I like to examine *new* parts purchased just to *see* exactly *what* was done.....

I would love to get ahold of a junk head to *slice* like cold cuts just to investigate thicknesses -a lot of information is found when you do this... .

No havnt looked at the Duramax- I'm too involved with these Cummins'
I know they're lighter but it is freaking amazing to see what these Cummins engines can do for their sheer size and mass and durability. The last one is key- once they work out the durability issues that plague them then I'll have to keep an eye on them- pays to keep an eye on the competition- don't you agree?
Naw- I'm a die hard loyal mopar guy... ... ... . I refuse to look at them in that kind of way( if your hinting something)

 

[AKAMAC]

I notice that there is a lot of talk about push-rod journal intrusion into the intake ports. Would it be fesiable to remove the cast journel, counter bore and sleeve the head to streamline the offending ports? I haven't seen one in person but from RDs pics there seems to be some wiggle room once you get past the P-R journel.



On a side note: You guys aren't going to start holding hands and singing cume-by-ya around a campfire are ya? We all need a little comedic relief now and then.....



Keep up the r&d, I for one am hooked. Mike

 

[RDLeader]

Hiyaaaa, Hiyaaaa, Hiyaaaaaa, Hiyaaaaaa, hahahahaha

 

[RacinDuallie]

On a side note: You guys aren't going to start holding hands and singing cume-by-ya around a campfire are ya? We all need a little comedic relief now and then.....

Keep up the r&d, I for one am hooked. Mike

what?!!

UHHH NO! But- is it me or has this thread just banged a couple gears forward ?

 

[sbentz]

We looked in to milling it all off and pressing a sleeve in there, but I think the technique I am working on now is a good way to go. Build a manifold to route the air direct to the ports, and avoid the blocked pushrod castings. The area between the red bars is a dead air flow point, and the more you can direct the air to the ports, maintain velocity, and reduce turbulent flow, the better.



The only reason to cut into the pushrod holes is to open up the radius in the left inlet edge. Not a huge gain.

 

[RacinDuallie]

We looked in to milling it all off and pressing a sleeve in there, but I think the technique I am working on now is a good way to go. Build a manifold to route the air direct to the ports, and avoid the blocked pushrod castings. The area between the red bars is a dead air flow point, and the more you can direct the air to the ports, maintain velocity, and reduce turbulent flow, the better.

The only reason to cut into the pushrod holes is to open up the radius in the left inlet edge. Not a huge gain.

Not huge persay but still a gain on the positive side of flow is still a gain- some little trick like that could very well drop off 15-30 degrees off the e. g. t. 's- don't rule out these small gains! All these *small* gains add up!! You don't have to go extreme like sleeving- but go back to my pics of port mouth for cylinder #6 and see how I helped that *small* gain... .

NEVER leave these small gains behind !! Look for other ways to get that gain and it still might not be as much of a gain as the extreme of sleeving, but a gain is a gain nonetheless... ...

We don't have a great deal to work with here- I'll take all the gains I can get!! BIG or small !!

 

[AKAMAC]

Scott, I can see what you are alluding to. I was just throwing out hypothetical, near sighted, nonconforming ideas into the mix. Thanks for the pics with illustration. Man how I hate the back seat. Mike

 

[sbentz]

Scott, I can see what you are alluding to. I was just throwing out hypothetical, near sighted, nonconforming ideas into the mix. Thanks for the pics with illustration. Man how I hate the back seat. Mike

No, the idea you have is good, and beleive me, the more ideas thrown out the better.

 

[RacinDuallie]

Hiyaaaa, Hiyaaaa, Hiyaaaaaa, Hiyaaaaaa, hahahahaha

RDLeader must have the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles over his place:-laf

 

[RacinDuallie]

Greg,
On those rocker arms you mention- could you elaborate a little more?

Material used for construction?


Different ratios?

 

[RacinDuallie]

It's not the finished product- but flow numbers will go up... ...

 

[COMP461]

The new rockers will be steel in construction , and the ratio will be some where in the 1. 65 to 1. 7 range , the theoretical ratio of the stock rockers are 1. 43 , but come out closer to 1. 36. the port work looks great , smooth hand. I have in my possession my cut up head , that I had sent out and will take pictures tomorrow.

 

[RacinDuallie]

Smooth hand? That pic was not even 10 minutes worth of work- that's what I consider rough work!!
But it'll show that with even minimal time working the port, flow increase is the benifits.

Smooth ports should'nt hurt the flow in a diesel after all there is no fuel mixture to keep in suspension- just airflow, when I heard the negitive response to the smooth port surface i was -

Shouldnt be a problem unless I am missing something here?


I just want to say Thanks Greg- I for one am looking forward to seeing these cut-away pics you have.

Now what about a port volume # on these secret heads?

I want to know what kind of potential there is to be had in the coming future. .

I can understand if your a little reluctant to say- that number says alot about the potential of the head... ... . :{


Ya can't blame my wanting to know!:-laf :-laf

 

[TxDieselKid]

Glad to see that yall are moving forward in this thread. When people put the ego's, and ill feelings about others aside, the amount of knowledge gained can be unreal.

 

[RacinDuallie]

Glad to see that yall are moving forward in this thread. When people put the ego's, and ill feelings about others aside, the amount of knowledge gained can be unreal.

Your right-
I apologize..... here want a slice of Humble Pie? It's fresh!



:-laf anyone have any 'coolwhip'?

 

[TxDieselKid]

Your right-

I apologize..... here want a slice of Humble Pie? It's fresh!



:-laf anyone have any 'coolwhip'?

I have had all the "humble pie" a man can stand off this site!

 

[RacinDuallie]

I have had all the "humble pie" a man can stand off this site!

* :-laf :-laf !!!!!!!!!