Thinking about twins...

[Gypsyman]

Thanks for all you input on the boards Keith. It means alot that you take the time out of your day to do this. I'll be stopping by you Ogden shop after Edge dyno days for DD2's and some other goodies.



Thanks Again,



-Richard

 

[GWoody]

"If you want 450hp or 500hp, we can and have been selling products to do that for some time on the 3G trucks"



I assume you're talking injectors and some other things, please elaborate, cost for one thing.

 

[Gypsyman]

Keith,

Do you feel that an air box, a set of 2's and an upgraded turbo would make a good towing combination?



-Richard

 

[mattymac]

Originally posted by KLockliear



We do have another turbo being built that should handle the TST and injectors pretty well, but it will be for the 500+hp range. It is not intended for 300-500hp trucks. It's a larger single, with good spool characteristics, very strong and dual ceramic ball bearings. It is on the horizon, but not here yet. The casting process takes quite some time.



Hope that helps.

Thanks for the info keith!



Lets just say this for example, The TST alone makes great power even on the lower levels 5/5 and lower. I am a person with very good self control when it comes to my $40,000 truck I will push the envolope with it but not to exceed it and hurt my truck I work so hard for. You are using pressure boxes + injetors for great power enhancements, so what im trying to say is since ive already got the TST and love it, If I were to buy a bigger turbo then combine this with injectors and just run it on the lower less abusive levels (3/1,4/1) do you think this could be a better or even useable set up than stacking say a TTPM or EZ with the TST? I know this is kind of a crude question but for those of us who have already spent the money on our TST's and want more go power with some adjustability would you be able to say go with injectors or a pressure box? Also with the advanced timing, duration, injectors, and say 40-50 lbs of boost on a good turbo, how well would the head gasket take all this? Also with the turbo you stated can you let some details sneak out? Such as stock downpipe? with 500+ HP could you say its streetable? how much boost will it be able to handle? rough price range?



Thanks for all your info agin Keith! We all appreciate it here.

 

[KLockliear]

Gypsyman - It's not our shop in Ogden by the way. Ken Jones (Diesel Performance of Utah) is an installer of ours. Just to make that clear. The 2's with our turbo kit, exhaust, gauges, fuel pusher kit, airbox and a boost module (or TTPM on power level 0) works extremely well. That's how Lawrence preferred to tow his 14k 5er. Then turn the TTPM on when not towing for 475+rwhp.



GWoody - yes. With the parts listed above, anywhere from 425 to 500rwhp is achieveable on a 305/555. Price wise, not including tax, labor/shipping or the needed transmission upgrades (so just parts) would run less than $3700. I don't think I can post specific prices here, so go to our website for more info.



Mattymac - It all comes down to the power and the delivery. If your combo makes 400rwhp, you will need all the same parts to control the EGT of 400rwhp, regardless of how you got there. On a 3G truck, that is basically everything you need for 500hp as well.



If fuel delivery is aggressive (more than a rail pressure box would give), then the turbo that will work well for 300-500hp may not be strong enough for even 400rwhp with that kind of power curve. When you have the ability to change the power curve shape, you have the control to do a lot of damage. Now, if you run the box in a level that mimics the power delivery of a rail pressure box, then you should be fine.



I would do injectors before any more electronic manipulation if at all possible. They are very linear and the power delivery is just like stock (or whatever your box commands). Be careful with the boost. Make sure the turbo you are running is efficient at those levels. Most smaller turbo's are not. 50psi is a lot to ask of a head gasket as well. We have seen the earlier 01-02 HO trucks (which have the same 17. 3:1 CR) push them out at around 55psi. We have not found the need to make more than 40psi at 500hp. Even our new turbo is designed to make less than 45# but move more CFM. Remember, boost is a measure of restriction, not flow.



The new turbo will also require a custom downpipe, as our current offering does. It is streetable above 500hp. Should run less than $2k for the 3G kit, less for the older trucks where there is no kit. Not real sure on the upper limit of boost for it, but it's efficient into the low 50's I believe (they don't tell me everything) .

 

[Gypsyman]

Last question from me. I've done searches and read every injector thread available. I have noted a few people running 2's that felt as if the truck was loading up when driving around town and the boost was low or non-existent. Is this something we need to be prepared for when going to injectors or do you feel that this is just something that is percieved by the operator?



-Richard

 

[ThomasLawrence]

It is on the horizon, but not here yet. The casting process takes quite some time.

Keith, any rough ETA on this? I'm certainly interested, as this sounds like a better alternative to a twin setup for my purposes (better as in less than half the cost ). Will it work with your existing airbox kit, or will a different kit be required?



BTW - with a TST and an EZ, your Jammer is working just fine at around 500RWHP. Sensible settings on the box, coupled with a gentle right foot (easy on, easy off), seem to keep all the parts stuck together.



-Tom

 

[Gypsyman]

Tom,



I don't see injectors listed in your sig any more. Too much with the TST or other reasons?



-Richard

 

[ThomasLawrence]

I don't see injectors listed in your sig any more. Too much with the TST or other reasons?

I never had injectors.

 

[Gypsyman]

Originally posted by KLockliear

Gypsyman - It's not our shop in Ogden by the way. Ken Jones (Diesel Performance of Utah) is an installer of ours. Just to make that clear. The 2's with our turbo kit, exhaust, gauges, fuel pusher kit, airbox and a boost module (or TTPM on power level 0) works extremely well. That's how Lawrence preferred to tow his 14k 5er. Then turn the TTPM on when not towing for 475+rwhp.

Sorry Tom, I thought Keith was referring to you. My bad...



-Richard

 

[SRadke]

Originally posted by mattymac

..... Since ive already got the TST and love it, If I were to buy a bigger turbo then combine this with injectors and just run it on the lower less abusive levels (3/1,4/1) do you think this could be a better or even useable set up than stacking say a TTPM or EZ with the TST?

This is EXACTLY what I'm going to do. I've read of several people who couldn't make it work but I've got more self control than most Now..... by the end of the summer I should be able to finance a bigger huffer



-Scott

 

[mattymac]

Originally posted by SRadke

This is EXACTLY what I'm going to do. I've read of several people who couldn't make it work but I've got more self control than most Now..... by the end of the summer I should be able to finance a bigger huffer



-Scott

Scott, I see some bigger injectors, a good turbo, and a good clutch in out future! With our self control I think this combo in the right hands and truck this combo would be awesome! Besides with the extra timing of the TST combined with injectors it should act a little better with EGT's say on settings 1/1, then when it comes time to go just up the number a few puches. Also what do you think will happen to your exh. brake with a new huffer?



Keith, I understand the injectors are diffrent for the 600 motor but have you upgraded the nozzles on these yet?

 

[KLockliear]

Gypsy, nothing I have heard of. Everyone's perception is a bit different though.



Tom, we're shooting for December/January at this point for the new turbo.



Mattymac, we are doing R&D on them as we type.

 

[SRadke]

Originally posted by mattymac

Scott, what do you think will happen to your exh. brake with a new huffer?

I understand the B1 series now has a direct bolt in options that will support up to 450 or over 450 so I'll probably go this route. That allows me to keep the e-brake and honestly if I had a healthy 400 hp with safe egt's I'd be happy.



-Scott

 

[Gypsyman]

I'm ordering the B1-03 today if I can get a hold of the dealer. Gotta' try one...



-Richard

 

[SRadke]

Richard, are you going for the big dude or the "up to 450hp" model? Wastegated or not? Sorry I don't know the part #'s. I'd really like to know what you think of it and how it works with your setup.



-Scott

 

[Gypsyman]

After being on the phone ALL morning. It looks like the B1-03 has faster spool-up due to a much tighter housing but is a direct bolt-in. The B1-04 has a larger turbine housing and much lower drive pressures. Good spool-up on a truck with a set of sticks in the head but is about an inch longer on the compressor outlet. Could be a problem with a Jacobs.

Bottom line. I'm going for the B1-04 with the dual volute waste gate and I'll see for myself if I can squeeze it in. Fingers crossed. It'll be a while as there already on back order but I'm getting on the list and after the install I'll give a full, unbiased report.



-Richard

 

[SRadke]

Originally posted by Gypsyman

..... but is about an inch longer on the compressor outlet. Could be a problem with a Jacobs.

Hmm... . I have never seen a Jacobs but my Pacrake has all the plumbing and bracketry on the outside away from the block. IIRC it doesn't extend any further toward the firewall than the stock elbow did. It will make for a little more fiddling to get the downpipe to fit up though.



-Scott

 

[Gypsyman]

Yeah, the elbows the same, its the actuator outboard of the elbow that could cause the problem. I went out and measured and I have about 2 1/2" to 3" to play with IF it only moves straight back. I just ordered one so we'll see shortly.



-Richard

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

BD has an inline exhaust brake that sits under the truck on the exhaust if you run out of space. I know a feller that has one and it works good.