Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Timing on pump

[Niro]

can the pump timing be changed or modified if the pump was not on the truck



I. E. Im planning on getting an auto 12v, however I have a lead on a 215 pump for like $400, so naturally Im gonna jump on it, can I have it changed for 16* before getting it installed on my truck?

How bout the injectors or any other parts? (sorry Im not very familiar with the pump and if it includes the injectors in it or not. )



I figured if some things could get done ahead of time, then it would save me time to get them done first and then have it installed once things are put in



thanks



Carl

 

[Johnstra]

You can get the pump timing set before you put it on the truck. Take it to a diesel injection shop. They'll be able to calibrate the pump and set the timing for you. Some shops will only set to stock timing but if you check around you should be able to find one that'll advance the timing for you. The injectors are not part of the pump. If you're going to install a fuel plate, governer springs, and AFC spring kit have the shop calibrate and time the pump with the goodies installed on it.

-john

 

[Niro]

thanks alot bud

that helps greatly and will save me tons of time



I assume to swap to a 215 pump is fairly easy? would there be anything extra I need for the swap or just the obvious(pump?)

 

[AWray]

Niro,



From my experience, a pump shop can calibrate the output of each cylinder of the pump and a few other things with the pump out of the truck. Unless you have them install the 215 pump on your truck, they cannot set the timing "on the bench". It must be set with the pump installed on the truck. The timing is a factor of the TDC of the pump relative to the TDC of the engine. If anyone can refute my statements (Jim Fulmer, Joe D, JR Adkins, etc), please set the record straight.

 

[Johnstra]

Well, the experts can correct me if I'm wrong, but you absolutely can have the pump timed before it goes on the truck. They will time it and then pin the pump so it won't move using the reversable pin on the pump. I watched the guy do mine. You do have to have the truck at TDC when you put the pump on the truck, but it will be timed to where the shop sets it.

-john

 

[AWray]

So when this guy worked on the pump on your truck, the timing was set on the bench, he reinstalled the pump, did not check the timing, and you know your timing was set to and remains at X degrees?



I understand and agree that your pump guy probably got the pump timing close on the bench. But my understanding is that Niro wants to take his pump to a guy, let him do his thing, bring the pump home and know that the timing is X degrees.

 

[Johnstra]

Yes, that's what I did. I took the pump off myself, had it timed at the shop, and reinstalled it myself. I checked the timing after putting the pump back on and it was where he set it - 15*. I don't see the difference between doing it on the truck and at the shop. The key detail either way is to make sure you find TDC. I'm far from an expert though.

-john

 

[BigPapa]

Johnstra's right... ... .



Scott

 

[obert]

Yer all right. The pump can have the timing built in, in that case you install the pump with all timing pins locked. OR you can pop the gear off the pump ( or not tighten it down in the first place) and turn the engine backwards with the pump locked at tdc. the latter isnt really as accurate but is the common field method used to retime the B engines when the pump gear slips on the shaft. Also a quick poor mans way to advance pump timing for perf. reasons.



I guess to define more, the pump has to be put on the egine to time it to the crank, regaurdless of which method of "advance timing" you have used. The pump has an adjustable setting for plunger travel at TDC, which can be set on the bench. The farther the plunger has traveled at TDC, the earlier the ignition timing.



Clear as mud?

 

[ProMac1K]

Pin the pump, pop the nut, and pull the pump... ... they'll take care of the rest.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

See you guys have it figured out!



Seriously, what we do is have the pump shop set the timing at 10 degrees on the pump when they do the pump stand tune/check, so when we install with the engine is at TDC and now the timing is at 20 (pump runs at half speed) it just makes things easier. I usually run 22-25 degrees so all I do is back the motor up a tad prior, tighten the nut and new washer to "good and snug" then pull the pump pin out and tighten it all the way (I go to 160 lbs)... ... . field timing



All you really need to know is were the pump timing is set at! For the field timing use the diameter of the balancer X 3. 1416 / 360, times the number of degrees you want to advance it and the calculator will give you a number.



So lets do a trial. Dia 9. 25 X 3. 1416 / 360 times 5 equals . 40 So for me to advance the timing 5 degrees from TDC I would back the motor up 4 tenths of an inch using a pointer.



Jim

 

[AWray]

All of this makes the $200 Snap-On timing kit look like a waste of $$

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Not really, it's a good kit! Remember that the timing you set is only as good as the TDC, if it's good then the timing should be good. I always do the drop valve method of TDC and do not rely and that silly TDC pin unless it was set correctly buy the engine builder. Mine is and I can use it with my fancy brass TDC pin that was given to me a few years ago!



Jim

 

[ProMac1K]

Not really, it's a good kit! Remember that the timing you set is only as good as the TDC, if it's good then the timing should be good. I always do the drop valve method of TDC and do not rely and that silly TDC pin unless it was set correctly buy the engine builder. Mine is and I can use it with my fancy brass TDC pin that was given to me a few years ago!



Jim

Sure beats the heck out of those cheap plastic ones, huh!

 

[walexa07]

How do you pin the pump? I am familiar with using the pin to find tdc, but do not know how to pin the pump once the desired lift is reached. Can pinning the pump also be used as backup to tighten the nut to 160 ft. lbs. ?

 

[obert]

The pump pin is plastic, isnt it? Id be afraid of breaking it. I've never more than "snugged" the nut against the pin.

 

[RyanB]

See you guys have it figured out!



Seriously, what we do is have the pump shop set the timing at 10 degrees on the pump when they do the pump stand tune/check, so when we install with the engine is at TDC and now the timing is at 20 (pump runs at half speed) it just makes things easier. I usually run 22-25 degrees so all I do is back the motor up a tad prior, tighten the nut and new washer to "good and snug" then pull the pump pin out and tighten it all the way (I go to 160 lbs)... ... . field timing



All you really need to know is were the pump timing is set at! For the field timing use the diameter of the balancer X 3. 1416 / 360, times the number of degrees you want to advance it and the calculator will give you a number.



So lets do a trial. Dia 9. 25 X 3. 1416 / 360 times 5 equals . 40 So for me to advance the timing 5 degrees from TDC I would back the motor up 4 tenths of an inch using a pointer.



Jim

Sorry to bring an old tread back but I am about to deal with this within the next few days!



So what you are saying Jim is to find TDC either by the drop valve method or by pinning the engine. And then have the pump shop lock time the pump to say 10 degree's which will actually be 20degree's and then its set right to 20? Then when I want to field time it I would turn the engine to where the pump lock locks into place at 10, losen the bolt... put degree's on the crank to say 10degrees and tighten everything back up and there for you would have 30 degrees total timing??? is that right?????? just trying to figure this out.



Thanks... Ryan

 

[BPonci]

Drop valve method is the best. Mark the damper and a location on the engine for a reference. That will make valve sets a breeze.

 

[RyanB]

yeah, that would work. Luckly when I had my engine built at Haisleys, Van degree'd the dampner and put a locator pin on it to make finding TDC a breeze! just curious though if I have the setup method right for next week when I get my pump back!



Ryan

 

[JoshPeters]

I just did this on a customers truck.



He had a pump shop do some work on his pump. They pinned the pump.



He installed it, but didn't tighten the nut. I backed up the engine to get the timing I thought we wanted (18 degrees) Snuged the nut. Pulled the pin on the pump. I then backed the enging up using that Snap-on timing set and set my dial indicator. I then rolled the engine over to check the timing. Guess what... . I was a few degrees off. I set it where I wanted it, did the timing procedure. (poped the gear, backed up the engine PAST TDC, set it back to TDC, Snugged, and rechecked)



Unless you want stock timing, or a WAG (wild @$$ guess) I'd do it right.



JMHO

Josh