Timken Clutch Release bearing, NV5600

[Darkbloodmon]

So are your replacement bolts 10.9 or 12.9?

New bolts are a 12.9 pics below.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

While I'm waiting on an Amazon special tool kit to decide my fate I wanted to ask if anyone has any experience replacing the input shaft seal on an NV5600?

Is it just a standard remove, reseal, replace or will endplay specs get bumped? I plan on doing all the input and out put seals on the drive powertrain to be thorough; but the input on the trans just has me a bit nervous given my luck with this truck and standard repairs that don't go as planned due to surprises from previous owners.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Update on my damaged crank threads.

Using a Langtools thread restorer kit I "think" I was able to clean and straighten it out. Hole is an M12 x 1.25. Using some tap magic for lube. I worked the bit back and forth with a 3/8ths ratchet many..... times occasionally cleaning out the hole and bit with brake clean, re-lube-ing and repeating. I bottomed the bit out and when backing it out I used my fingers when possible to feel for any spots with resistance. At a tight spot I'd use the 3/8ths ratchet and work it back in forth on that spot, back it out with my fingers again till I found another spot, repeat until the bit was removed.

I cleaned out all the bores for the other crank holes to be 100% and cleaned all the new bolts going in to make sure there wouldn't be any issues.

All the new bolts can go in by hand and bottom out with just my fingers. The damaged hole I cleaned out will not allow for this, it's a tighter fit. I have to use a wrench to get it in but it's smooth and straight. I finished the bores off with a nylon pipe cleaner brush attachment for my small impact driver. The real test will be when I put the new fly wheel on and torque it down. I will be using Loctite...

Pics below.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Update, I'll be doing the last of the dark side re-seals this weekend following an oil pan and rear main. But I was wondering if anyone has any experience re-sealing the input seal housing on an NV5600. I've already got the new input seal installed, I'm waiting on a new oil guide (It's not re-usable; it's a press-fit and you will bend it getting it out. It popped me in the face real good) and anaerobic sealant from torque king 4x4. I couldn't find a detailed reassembly procedure in my 03 factory service manual.

I understand how it all the parts go back together but I just want to know if there is a specific pattern or assembly procedure for the anaerobic sealant, there was alot of it on the housing as I was cleaning the surface. I'd rather do this job once.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Update for those wondering how to reseal the input housing on an NV5600.

Un bolt it and clean the surface carefully, try using a strong solvent on the bellhousing side since it's aluminum. You can use a scraper on the housing piece, it's a cast iron piece, but be mindful of the direction it was machined in, the marks in the housing are deep enough to catch if your're not careful and the anaerobic sealant used to seal the housing can only fill up too .015s of an inch according to Permatex.

Remove the oil guide, this is a press fit piece and re-use is not advised as it will take some force to remove. Carefully remove the input seal I use loctite 545 on seals at their matting surface but to each their own. Replace using a socket, install was easier than remove because of the seal's orientation.

Install the oil guide after the new input is pressed in, I use 545 on the sealing surface. If you don't have something able to fit the diameter of the oil guide to tap it in, carefully go around the perimeter making sure you hitting the outer most area that is supported by the seat below it. Next install you're shim or shims if you have one. I used the anaerobic sealant to hold it in place in the housing. Three small dots and spread them thin; the sealant is tacky and holds very well for assembly.

next do a final wipe down of your mating surfaces. For the sealant I used what came from the factory an anaerobic sealant rather than an rtv, I've been told you can use rtv but i'm not looking to give it a try. Anaerobic sealant is used for machined surfaces with very specific tolerances. I sourced my sealant from Torque King 4x4. As far as how to apply the sealant to the surface the whole face needs to be coated, a picture below will show an example. You can go ahead and apply the sealant, it will stay tacky and not set until there is an absence of oxygen. You want a nice even medium coat. Use you're finger to spread sealant from high spots to low spots.

There are 12 bolts holding this housing cover, and mine were gobbed with blue thread locker from the factory. I chose to get new bolts rather than clean these off because I didn't have the tools or the time, a trip to fastenal got me some beautiful new bolts matched to length with an oxide coating. I chose orange loctite for the thread locker, It advertises the strength of red with the removability of blue.

Install and guide the housing in place, and using two uncoated bolts at the northern and southern most edges of the housing install to hold it. Take note of them or mark them. Now begin installing the bolts with Loctite one by one. I recommend using hand tools for this instead of power tools, It's a cast aluminum housing no need to crack it. Get the bolts hand tight till you see the sealant pushing out the perimeter. After all the bolts are snug starting form the center and working you're way out in a diagonal criss crossing pattern torque the bolts to 20ft/lbs ( I sourced this from my 03 service manual). To compensate for the extension I was using on my torque wrench I gave them another 8th of a turn if that on the bolts.

You should get the sealant to squeeze out a good bit, which should mimic how it looked from the factory. The sealant will set in the absence of oxygen, and the excess pushed out will remain tacky.

With this your input seal housing should be installed, hope this helped someone. I struggled calling around to get an answer.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Transmission is in... This was a struggle that I shared with two friends that owed me labor.

We got lucky with the splines and pilot bearing sliding in with some jiggling and twisting of the output shaft. But pushing this thing forward and up was a hurdle in my sloped driveway. I had a member from a local 4x4 forum drop by to pick up a Toyota 8" I had for sale and he said he struggled with the job even with a well equipped shop on his 04.

The job is not impossible but I can't say I would recommend doing this if you don't have the hands, downtime, or resources. Major work like this for a 3/4 ton in a driveway is really miserable. I'm worn out, as well as my friends who I owe lunch and labor now.

I haven't gotten everything in the drive train on yet. I still need to install the slave cylinder, transfer case, and drive shafts. but I can solo all of those things. I can't stress enough how difficult this job is going to be if you aren't properly prepared for it.

 

[GCroyle]

I can't stress enough how difficult this job is going to be if you aren't properly prepared for it.

I've seen the carnage to a clutch when the planets were not properly aligned. Brute force ain't the tool. Skill, luck and patience much better tools.

Keep going.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Can anyone speak from experience about the fit and feel of South Bends HYD-X-750 adjustable slave cylinder kit?

I've got mine installed, No drive time on it yet. Adjustment sleeve is all the way in.

Does the pedal sit higher than the stock hydro? I notice as I turn in the adjustment sleeve the pedal gets higher.

Any issues or hiccups you've noticed?

 

[BigPapa]

What clutch did you end up going with?

It says on the website “ NOT FOR USE WITH OEM CLUTCH ON TRUCKS WITH G56 TRANSMISSION.”

 

[Darkbloodmon]

What clutch did you end up going with?

It says on the website “ NOT FOR USE WITH OEM CLUTCH ON TRUCKS WITH G56 TRANSMISSION.”

View attachment 128096

I went with a Phoenix friction Stage 3 Kevlar clutch, this is an NV56 truck.

 

[BigPapa]

Sorry, missed that.

Carry on......

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Update learn from my mistakes

My rear main is leaking, after an oil pan and a failed rear main seal replacement. Topped off the engine with oil last night to prep for a first fire this morning after cleaning up some wiring and I now have a leak steadier than the original rear main leak I attempted to fix. I suspect the seal is crooked in the housing.

I should've filled the engine after the oil pan and rear main to check if it was sealing correctly before putting the transmission back in.

I've not fired the engine over yet to check how bad it leaks at temp. If it's leaking like a siv I'm not sure what i'll be able to do. I just had to walk away and sit down. This goes back to what I said earlier about being adequately prepared for this job. Simple doesn't mean easy.

Rant below:

I feel sick to my stomach, I had all the right tools, OEM parts, OEM seals, Factory service manual followed to the T and I keep getting half assed results. More nights than I can count spent laying on my back in my drive way working on this POS with the HOA blasting me with notices and threats of fines, now I'm leaking out the back side and potentially slinging oil on a 750.00 clutch set. I can fix everyone elses car and get five star results; but when it comes to my own, the stars and planets align only to give me the hardest time possible with the simplest of tasks.

 

[GCroyle]

Sorry for the situation. Might be time to take a break and come back after the dark clouds clear up.

 

[bcbender]

You're a brave soul and I know exactly how you feel as it happens to me all the time (Murphy and I are good friends!_). I did my NV5600 and another TDR buddie's on my lift with a trans jack and it was not too bad either time, but I simply cannot imagine wrestling that heavy trans laying on my back in a driveway and I commend you on your efforts. Keep on trucking and best of luck to you!!! FWIW, my 95 Bronco when I did the frame off restoration, I did a rear main seal and oil pan gasket at that time, same result, leaked worse after install than it did when before I tore it down. Turns out it was a bad (or bent) oil pan and its was (still) leaks out the side and runs down the block dripping from the transmission (like a rear main)... I siliconed the cr_p out of it and its not too bad unless I park uphill

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Sorry for the situation. Might be time to take a break and come back after the dark clouds clear up.

Walking away helped clear my head and look at it from another angle. Oil leak turned out to be just some that was spilled when filling, It took the most convincing path on the driver side of the engine near the cam seal and settling underneath the bellhousing adapter looking like a rear main leak. I had a successful first fire after a month and a half of sitting. But I have a high pitched grinding noise when I let the clutch out. Noise goes away with the clutch pushed in and held. One way or another this trans is coming out again....

I suspect the throw-out bearing is coming in contact with bent or uneven fingers on the pressure plate. Am I right in assuming this? All the wear items in the clutch housing have been replaced, new fork, OEM ball stud and clip, the input shaft retaining housing didn't have any wear warranting replacement. I used a Timken 614114 self aligning throw-out bearing instead of the one provided in the clutch kit which wasn't self aligning.

Holding the clutch in makes the truck near quiet for context. Letting the clutch out going into gear I get some vibration and bounce in the drive line. This was normal for a cold start until a few minutes of driving on the old clutch. I only test drove it around the block in 1st 2nd and 3rd.

I have a few other write ups to follow up on not all related to the clutch job. @seafish 's power steering filter and @AH64ID 's coolant filter, Keep an eye out if you interested in either. I'll get some pictures of my setup and try to get a comprehensive parts list since its still fresh in mind.

 

[GCroyle]

Ok something to work eit

But I have a high pitched grinding noise when I let the clutch out. Noise goes away with the clutch pushed in and held. One way or another this trans is coming out again....

I suspect the throw-out bearing is coming in contact with bent or uneven fingers on the pressure plate. Am I right in assuming this? All the wear items in the clutch housing have been replaced, new fork, OEM ball stud and clip, the input shaft retaining housing didn't have any wear warranting replacement. I used a Timken 614114 self aligning throw-out bearing instead of the one provided in the clutch kit which wasn't self aligning.

DBM,

OK something to work with.

FACT the engine is turning, the clutch release bearing is turning too. There is no old school freeplay. The only variable is how much force is being applied to the release bearing via the hydros and release system. Maybe 30 lbf foot off the pedal to 450lbf + at release, floorboard.

Engine turning, foot off of the pedal a preload force is applied to the bearing from the fork and the source of this preload is the spring INSIDE the slave cylinder. Example remove your clutch slave cylinder and install a new DRY unbled slave cylinder only. As soon as you bolt the cyl in place the preload has been established. It causes the bearing to turn continously.

Diagnostics for your high pitched noise.
Engine running, trans in N, foot off of the clutch pedal. Making noise?
Now use one finger tip and push a little bit on the clutch pedal. Noise stays the same or goes away? Goes away now you can investigate the preload spring in the slave cyl, the free sliding of the bearing on the guide tube and if the self aligning function of the bearing is working. Meaning it shifts position on the collar with a crisp finger push to move the bearing on the collar.

Identifying a self aligning bearing. Two systems have been the order of the design. A friction device with a wave spring of some sort holds the bearing on the collar and the bearing can be snapped L-R Up-Down showing the movement of this feature. You cannot "set" the position it will take care of itself as soon as you push the clutch pedal.

The other slightly less sophisticated is the design the Aetna bearing has used for a LONG time. It's just a rather loose yeah I'll find my sweet spot when I'm ready and doesn't have that CLICK CLICK of almost all other modern release bearings.

Now take another listen and report back!

Gary

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Now take another listen and report back!

For clarification, the high pitched noise I hear is the grinding noise with the clutch out.

Engine running, Trans in N, foot off clutch, Grinding Noise.

Light pushing on the clutch, noise continues. Pushing clutch in I can feel it disengage, at this point the noise stops. As I'm letting the clutch out I can feel it grab and the noise starts.

Edit: I'm using the south bend adjustable hydro, the adjustment sleeve is bottomed out giving the lowest pedal position and requiring the most effort to move.

 

[bcbender]

Dumb question but trans is full of MTF or similar?

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Dumb question but trans is full of MTF or similar?

Amsoil Manual synchromesh, I had used it before without issue prior to this. I had maybe 20K if that on the old fluid.

 

[bcbender]

Yep, I ran Amsoil for 40k intervals and my NV5600 liked it, just thought I’d ask