To dual or not to dual, what should I dual?

[DBelshee]

I am one lucky guy who gets to order a new Dodge! Now, I need the opinion of experts! We are ordering a 3500 with the new Cummins and 6 speed, and plan on pulling a 5th wheel with gvw of around 14000#. Now that there is a choice of a single or dual rear tire, what do I really need? I'm sure that if I had a large camper, the dually would be the way to go. The pin weight on the 5th is around 2400#, and I can't see packing around two extra tires on the back of the truck, unless I need to for stability reasons, etc. Any input? Also, what about the rear gear ratio? Pulling a GVCW of around 21000#, is the 3. 73 ratio acceptable, or do I need the 4. 10? Thirdly, have any of you had any experience with exhaust brakes? What brands do you use, and what are the pros and cons to each one, and why did you choose a particular brand? Lastly, for those of you pulling fifth wheels, are you using 2 or 4x4's? Do the 4x4's raise the 5th wheels so high that it makes it handle poorly, and, do the 2 wheelers have enough traction in less than ideal road conditions such as mountainous gravel roads, etc? I've had 2 wheel drive pickups before that have gotten stuck on wet grass, but have never pulled a 5th wheel behind a 2 wheel pickup. Any ideas? And finally, are there any options which you have found you could'nt do without? Thank you in advance for all of your input! You guys and the TDR are simply awesome! Keep up the good work!

 

[klenger]

Welcome to the TDR. Here's my take on this with my somewhat limited experience towing.



1) You need the dully with that much weight.

2) You need the 4. 10's with that much weight.

3) 4x2 if you live where there isn't much snow, or will park it if it's snowing, otherwise, 4x4 is nice, but causes clearance problems with the 5er.

4) I like the Jacobs/Dodge exhaust brake, but am not familiar with the options for the '03.



It the pin weight you mentioned actual from a scale, or specs. form the RV manufacturer? If it is the spec from the RV manufacturer, the actual weight will be higher. Check the links in my sig for information of towing weights.



You didn't ask, but you also want a LWB.



Good luck and have fun.

 

[Dean Upson]

I agree with all that klenger says. You would be pushing it with a SRW and 3. 73's with that much trailer. The exhaust brake is a must. 4wd, while not absolutely necessary can get you out of a pickle in some campsites and soft shoulders, the height doesn't adversely effect the handling of the truck, but you could have a problem with the clearance of your fiver to the sides of the truck. My trailer weighs about 15,000# loaded and I feel that I have the perfect truck for the task (see sig). Welcome to the TDR and good luck with your new truck when you get it. You will love it.



Dean

 

[TowPro]

I have a 32' Fleetwood that (factory says) weighs 11K loaded, 8500 empty. I used to tow it with a 2500 with the 8800 lb option package. I feel it was all the weight that that truck could handle on the rear axle.



This winter I bought a 02 Duelly, once the snow melts I will see how it tows. Everybody I have talked to says after you go to a dually, you will never go back when towing 5th wheels, time will tell



Now my new one is an Auto with 410's, my old one was a 5 speed with 3:55's. If I was ordering a truck, I would go with something around 3:90 if they had it.



At least in 2002, the dually has larger tires then the 2500, plus my auto has a lower OD then the 5 speed. but both trucks do 2000 rpm at 65mph,



the 5 speed at 245/75/16's, and not sure but I think I have 265/85/16's on the new one, so depending on what size tires you get you can figure out what axle ratio you need.

 

[Dean Upson]

I forgot to mention that the adjustable pedals are nice and that duallies really look good in SILVER .



Dean

 

[Casey Balvert]

I heartily endorse the recommendations made by Klenger and Dean. You definitely need a dually with that trailer. You will be over the gross weight with a SRW and the trailer loaded for travel. You definitely need the 4. 10 real axle with limited slip. The fuel economy penalty is negligible if you adhere to the speed limits, there is no penalty in top speed and you gain 2000 pounds in legal towing capacity. Don't forget the towing mirrors. They are power and adjustable. I substituted tow hooks for 4 wheel drive. If I get stuck that bad, I will call Dean to come pull me out.



And last but not least. BLACK PAINT. Duallies are awesome in BLACK. Oo.



Good luck with your new truck.



Casey

 

[Oil Ape]

I agree with the arguements but may disagree on the recommendation. True you are pushing the limits of weight with a SRW truck but I think more depends on exactly how you are planning on using this truck. If you are mainly driving this truck around like a daily driver and occasionally pulling the trailer go with the SRW. If you are hooked constantly to the fiver then go with the DRW.



We use our 96' 2500 to haul water several times a week with a 500 gallon tank which weighs almost 4000 lbs full. (I guess you have to be from Wyoming to understand why). Other than one rear seal going bad we have had no problems whatsoever with the rear axle in over 6 years of hauling.



If you are in snow country I extremely discourage the use of DRW and think you would be very disappointed in its winter performance, or if you will use this truck offroad much.



4X4 really helps the resale value of that truck in most western states and I wouldn't even consider buying a truck anymore without. In fact I put at least 50 miles of 4X4ing in last week around the streets of Davenport, IA.



A friend of ours hauls Titan trailers back from Kansas to Lyman, WY and originally started with a DRW 4. 10 truck and absolutely hated it. He has switched to a 2500 SRW 3. 54 truck and loves it even pulling two stock trailers at a time at well over the 14000# you are claiming.



Unless you think you really need it, go with the SRW and never look back... besides you can smile at the DRW drivers that you'll see with empty beds and beat up rear fenders... .

 

[Dean Upson]

The only point I was trying to make is that the dually with the 4:10's is the truck designed to haul DBelshee's fiver. There is little arguement that the SRW is easier to get around with.

I had a 1986 Ford F-350 diesel 2wd that would spin and just sit there on wet grass, it was a useless as the rest of the truck was. I have had 3 CTD's since 1994 all 4wd duallies and they have been good in the snow. The '03 is the best so far, by far. As far as the bashed up fenders go, if you leave your mirrors out, you should have room for your butt to go through .

I seriously thought about getting a SRW and 3. 73's this time, but after reading the difference in the capacities, I felt that leagally I would be better off having a truck that was speced out to do the job. I may worry too much about liability and warantee issues.



Dean

 

[ewcmr2]

Having towed my 36' GN race trailer with both 2500 and 3500 Dodges I much prefer the 3500.



Eric

 

[boonsur]

Do the Dual

The extra stability for towing a heavy fifth is a big reason I went with training wheels. Another strong argument is what happens in a SRW when you lose a rear tire. That's a lotta weight comming over you. Happened just out of town here last summer. Made a real big mess (closed highway, etc. ). Fortunately, no one was killed.



Not sure whether it's the long wheel base, or the extra tires, but this truck really doesn't want to fish-tail nearly as bad as my '99 (SWB/SRW). It is still got a lot of torque, though, and I find myself using 4WD quite a bit to pull out into traffic, etc. BTW, the new system makes transition in and out of 4WD really smooth (lever shifter).



I also think the duallies just plain look better. IMHO, the SRW's lack a little in sex-appeal:-{} . And, I have found the steering, cut-in, etc. makes these very manuverable. Driving is very comfortable/natural - much better than I ever imagined. Only thing is looking for bigger, isolated parking spaces.



BTW, black IS best!!!!

 

[jrollins]

maybe i am wrong but i thought if you got a 6-speed it must be ordered with 4. 10 gears? plus if it didn't wouldn't the 3. 55 gears kinda kill the reason you bought the 6-speed in the first place?

 

[Dean Upson]

I think the LWB is the main reason for better tracking. It sure irons out the bumps better. I went to DRW's in 1986 because I had a heavy truck camper and there was much less sway plus the safety factor that bonsur mentions. I agree that the dually is a great looking truck but that SWB 2500 is a looker too. Actually they all look great no:-{} .



Dean

 

[JGilbert]

Re: Do the Dual

Originally posted by boonsur



BTW, black IS best!!!!

I saw a Firetruck Red Laramie Dually here in Mesquite yesterday. Man, it was sweet!! It had the color matched fulll length running boards.



Joe

 

[Dean Upson]

maybe i am wrong but i thought if you got a 6-speed it must be ordered with 4. 10 gears? plus if it didn't wouldn't the 3. 55 gears kinda kill the reason you bought the 6-speed in the first place?

You can get the six speed with either the 3. 73's or the 4:10's. Those are the only gear ratios available with the Cummins. You cannot get the 3. 54's anymore.



Dean

 

[jrollins]

Originally posted by Dean Upson

You can get the six speed with either the 3. 73's or the 4:10's. Those are the only gear ratios available with the Cummins. You cannot get the 3. 54's anymore.



Dean

Thanks for that info, i was under the impression that you had to get a 4. 10 gear ratio when you ordered a 6-speed, that was one of the main reasons i wasn't interested in them. but if they are available with 3. 73's the 6-speed doesn't sound that bad. .

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Oil Ape



Unless you think you really need it, go with the SRW and never look back... besides you can smile at the DRW drivers that you'll see with empty beds and beat up rear fenders... .

If the tow mirrors clear the dually wheels clear. I've had (2) 3500's and would go with Dean and the others on their recommendations. Black/Silver 03 3500 4x4 with HO 6 speed and the 4. 10 limited slip. Get the tow mirrors and have the bed Linex installed. Enjoy your new truck.

 

[RustyJC]

We're pulling a 13,500 lb 5ver (loaded & on the road) and are crowding our 10,500 GVWR. Our actuals are 10,380 GVW (10,500 GVWR) and 21,180 GCW (21,500 GCWR). I would definitely go with the dually with the weights you're looking at - no question at all. Now, the 3. 73's versus the 4. 10's - if you can get the GCWR you need with the 3. 73's and a 6-speed, I might look seriously at it. In our case, we had to order the 4. 10's to get the 21,500 GCWR - 3. 54's only carry a 20,000 GCWR.



Rusty

 

[RustyJC]

Sorry, I should have said that my post was directed to DBelshee, the originator of this thread - he had a HEAVY 5th wheel!



Rusty

 

[sangell]

No need to be sorry, my bad. I just thought it would be a waste to start a new thread when the question I have is about the same. But I will delete my last post and start a new one and then delete this one. Again sorry for the confusion.



Scott

 

[Peter Campbell]

I am in agreement here. If you are out in the open and tow often or even not so often- get the duals. You never go wrong with too much truck. But up here in the land of tolls ( New York -the Welfare state ) a SRW is an advantage when not towing