Tone Ring came through pan!

[turbo torque]

Rollin down the interstate today, 65-70 mph I herd a little noise, thought it was just some ice falling off. A minute later, NO oil pressure. I shut down immediately and wrassled it to the shoulder. Turns out I have a radius shaped gash coming out the bottom of the oil pan in line with the CPS.



I plan on tearing into this myself. From what Iv'e read here it can be done in the truck. I know engine has to be lifted and #6 cap removed,piston pushed up. Can anyone offer any other tips that could help ease the pain?



Also, Is there a better place than Cummins get a new one?



Can anyone explain why these come loose? Are there any preventive measures I can take?



Thanks Much in advance, Bill.

 

[mwilson]

If you provide your ESN I will look the parts up in Cummins and give you some average pricing, might not be that bad.



Are you going to patch the pan or do you want to price out a replacement?



If you would rather not give out the ESN you are welcome to PM or send me an e-mail at -- email address removed --.



As far as pan removal you can do it in the truck, I have done it with a 98. 5 Auto 4x4. It is tight but it will come out and go back in. The ring is not a repair I have ever had to do, but I'm sure that someone on here has done it before and will chime in.





Mike.

 

[turbo torque]

ESN# 56451555 I have no problem welding the pan.

Thanks Mike.

 

[mwilson]

Can't get pricing right now, server at work is still backing up the week.



Did get part numbers***



3942441 Tone Ring

Item 4



3944203 Tone Ring Screw (5 req)

Item 5



3959052 Oil Pan Gasket

Item 2



3938157 Sump Gasket

Item 3



I will get you pricing as soon as server finishes...



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

Ok, just got the pricing



Tone Ring

$65. 00



Screws

5 at $3. 65 each



Oil Pan Gasket

$34. 71



Sump Gasket

$1. 89



The only thing I can't do from home is check factory stock. Just call you Cummins dealer of choice Monday AM and they can check that for you.

Remember, you don't necessarily have to go to a Cummins Distributor either. Most truck dealers are "B" certified and can get you the parts at a fair price.



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

It might have belted the sensor on its way out, here is the part number and pricing for that as well... .



4921601 Crank Sensor with o-ring



Item 9 and 14



$57. 45



Mike.

 

[Sticks]

I've done one in truck. Bare with me, it's been 6 years since I did one, and I have taken many hits to the head since then.

Yes you have to tilt the engine, either separate the transmission (recommended), or remove the transmission support bracket and allow it to tip down at the tail.

Disconnect the exhaust from the turbo/pull the turbo, intake (air filter, intercooler) upper radiator hose. Keep an eye on the fan when you tip it so you don't damage the radiator - I can't remember if I pulled the fan or not.

I know we jacked up the front of the engine at the dampener, and might have lifted a bit at the bell housing to get more clearance.

Also going to need skinny hands to get in there to remove the oil suction tube with the pan resting on the axle (unless you have a lift kit). Get new gaskets for it as well.

If your truck is manual, might want to think about a clutch and rear main seal while you are there. Also might want to look into a set of main and rod bearings. Won't hurt to inspect them and replace if they are worn (pending mileage on your truck). It is possible to replace them without removing the crankshaft and is an easy job.

Silicone the pan gasket to the pan and let it set over night before you install the new pan - MAKE SURE YOUR BOLT HOLES ARE LINES UP!

The only bad thing I can think of is the tone wheel bolts sheared off in the crank, and extraction may be a nightmare. If not, make sure the holes are clean and dry, and locktite (red) the new ones.

Side note - the truck I did was on a drive on lift, not a frame lift. I can't remember if we jacked up the front of the truck to let the axle hang. Seems like we did. I know we pondered dropping the axle but IIRC that was going to be a hassle, and it looked like we would be able to get enough clearance.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I did mine in the truck as well - on my back on the floor of the garage. A couple of the bolts sheered off in the crank as mentioned above - I used a reverse drill bit and was able to back them out that way. Cummins was the cheapest place I found for the parts.

 

[turbo torque]

Thanks so much everyone. I probably won't be able to get into it till tuesday, wed.

Unfortunately, I expect sheered bolts.



Does anyone have any idea why these things gernade like this?



I'll post my findings.



Thanks, again, Later, Bill.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I wonder if there is any way to "convert" the sensor setup like the 6. 7 where the tone ring is on the crank damper? That would mean installing a 6. 7 damper and sensor but I have no idea if the tooth count is the same and the sensor connector is probably going to be different.

 

[Sticks]

It's just one of those things. It's more common that it should be, but in the big picture, not that frequent.

Most times it's caught when the crank sensor code gets thrown and the truck is acting funky. You stick a screwdriver in the hole and see if the tone ring is coming loose. Yours is the first trashed oil pan that I have heard of.

 

[Sticks]

I wonder if there is any way to "convert" the sensor setup like the 6. 7 where the tone ring is on the crank damper? That would mean installing a 6. 7 damper and sensor but I have no idea if the tooth count is the same and the sensor connector is probably going to be different.

You would still have to tear the pan out, remove the tone ring then put it all back together. Better to just to the preventive maintenance if one feels the need. Replace the screws, locktight and stake the screws for extra measure.

 

[turbo torque]

Cummins shop won't have the ring for me till next Tuesday. So, I'll let you know what the outcome is next week.



Thanks again, Bill.

 

[Sticks]

Good luck. Keep us up to date!

 

[turbo torque]

Update. Parts came in today and, we got'er tore down, Not good.

The Mighty Cummins is now sitting on the floor!



The small half of the ring was still attached to the crank, the bigger side was in four pieces with 1" of it missing. There is metal shavings, the consistency of sand all over the inside of the block. Crank would not turn till I put big pipe wrench on the damper and went backwards,forwards and back and forth. Finally got it to rotate freely. (need a fluid master anyway)



I'm concerned there might be a piece floating up on the cam. Looked all over with a bore scope and could see nothing.



Most disturbing, checked a few rod bearings, caps look ok but the top (rod side) of #3 is down to copper, the lead, tin coating is gone. It is adhered to the crank. The crank has a faint color of copper to it, and you can feel it when you run the edge of a feeler gauge across it. Mains look good so far.



Tomorrow, we'll get the crank out and send off to be polished. There is no scoring, just adheashing,



PS The hole in the pan was only 1/8" wide so nothing big went missing there.



This is a real drag. I replaced CPS one month ago. The ring might have been loose then.



If you ever change the CPS on one of these, make SURE you stick a screwdriver in there and check that tone ring, rotate 1/3 and check again then another 1/3 check.



I'll keep Ya up-dated. Oh Yea, this is my daily driver.

 

[Sticks]

Bummer. My money is on the missing piece went through the pan and the cut sprung back closed.

By the Cummins is sitting on the floor, I presume you mean you pulled the engine out of the truck?

 

[turbo torque]

Yea, pulled it. Worked on it all day, still don't have the crank out. It will be tomorrow.



Correct me if im wrong, but it looks like the cam has to come out to get the front off. This is where I'm going tomorrow.



Right now it's standing on it's butt, on 4x4's with all rods un-hooked and front and rear mains still intact.



And yea it did belt the CPS.



I'll keep you updated.

 

[Sticks]

Yes, you have to pull the cam. Don't forget to lift and secure the tappets off the cam.

There is a tool for this, that is nothing more than a 1/2 wood dowel that has a cut about 3/4" down one end that is made to jam into the tappet and hold it up.

Now is when you may want to buy a service manual for the engine.

 

[Sticks]

Barring a head gasket set, doing a rebuild at this point will be relatively cheap parts wise. If you were thinking of ever tweaking the engine, including running a hotter cam, now is the time.

In retrospect, instead of fighting the tappets, you could pull the push rod inspection cover off the left side of the engine since you are pulling the VP anyhow. Only a few more things you have to pull off the side of the engine to do it.

The top end gasket kit runs $150 - $350. I'd be tempted to pull the head and have a good look at the cylinders, especially #3 and #6.

Get your camera out. We are going to want pics of this repair now.

 

[turbo torque]

Got the crank out this (mourning). Things just keep getting worse. #1 is at TDC so, I have a good view of the bottom of the cylinder. It is rough as a cob.



I need to re-group my brain now and figure out my options.



I only have 125k but, I'm a little reluctant to go all the way with a 53 block.

Do I go short block, long block, junk yard, and get away from the 53 block or send mine to a machine shop? I have to mull this around some, once I get over the inital shock again. I haven't checked any prices yet. I don't have bottomless pockets, but it has to be rock solid when Im done.



Any advice at this point would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks, Bill.