2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Took new truck in for first time...bad experience...

[RustyJC]

I guess I'm fortunate, but when we moved back to the Houston area in 1997, our 1996 3500 was still under warranty. I took it in to Weisner Dodge in Tomball, TX for some service work and began building a personal relationship with Butch Fayle, one of the Service Advisors. Because of the excellent service and caring attitude shown by Butch over the subsequent years, we bought my wife Sandy's 2000 Durango and my 2002 Ram at Weisner - yeah, they're a 5-Star dealer by the way.



At this point, either Sandy or I can walk into that dealership if we have a problem and deal with Butch on a personal level. For example, Sandy had someone back into her Durango this week in a parking lot (only scuffed some paint on the front bumper) - she was upset and crying when she went into the service bay to get an estimate for repairs. Butch came out, put his arm around Sandy's shoulders and told her, "Don't worry, Sandy, this is only a car. We'll get it fixed up for you as good as new. Don't worry about it - we'll take care of you. " Yeah, it sounds soupy, but this guy means it - he's proven it in the past.



Are we lucky? Maybe so, but my experience over a lot of years has been that it's worth the effort to try to build a personal relationship with key individuals at a dealership. If you have that personal relationship established, you can work on a whole different non-adversarial level when a problem arises (and they will).



For example, when a service tech screws up (and they have a few times), Butch takes it as personally as if he had done it himself, apologizes and tries his best to make it right! We had an OEM battery fail under warranty on our 1996. The tech who was changing it out had a wrench slip when removing the cables and put a very small scratch on the fender. Butch and the Service Manager came in the waiting room, sheepishly asked me to come out into the shop, showed me what had happened, apologized and offered to paint the fender (knowing they could never match the Driftwood paint, I refused. ) The scratch was so small, I probably wouldn't have noticed it for weeks, and even then I would have likely thought that I had done it while working on the truck.



So, what's the point of this post? Only that there are some good dealers still out there, and that there are some things we can do on our side to help build a healthy working relationship with a dealer.



JM2CW.



Rusty

 

[Rotty]

I just had a recent dealings with a dodge of bellevue in WA. I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO THEM AGAIN! I just recently blew a clutch on my truck a day before thanksgiving. The truck finally made it to the dealership ~5:00pm. no problem. It willl be friday before we look at it. no problem. Friday 8:30 am "we will have a quick look at it". 10:30 - 11:00 am my wife calls and finally pries it out of the service rep that they were not going to look at it until monday?! They get read the riot act because I absolutly need it for thur to haul my tractor and stuff to oregon.

Lying to me is NOT a good thing. I understand stuff happens, explain that to me in an honest manner and I will understand and make arrangements. But NEVER LIE to ME!

After getting my truck, I smell gear lube burning alll the way to oregon and my right side mirror is broken! Well I am thinking my transmission is going to burn up because it is leaking all of the gear lube out. I finally pull into a oil can henrys and have them check it out. After 300 miles it is 1 quart over full. How in the hell does a professional mechanic overfill a manual transmission and then charge me $50 for fluids. I know I have to use the syntheic stuff. But if you fill the manual transmission from the fill plug on the side, you can NEVER over fill it. Also, the transmission is leaking too from various seals. I worked as a mechanic in a private shop for 6 years, the stuff the dealership is trying to pull is criminal. I will keep you update!

Sorry I had to vent and is is a little long on post length.

The good part is I have a NEW southbend clutch in it and it work fantastic. Thanks peter! It has held up to towing 10k lbs.

 

[brucew]

dealerships

thanks for your comments wayne. i am not a mechanic but work in a high stress medical field. i have somewhat of an understanding as it relates to customer service. i would rather here the truth and be unhappy than lied to. i have a 01. 5 ctd with an auto that fails to engage if i leave it sit more than 3 days. dealer gave me the paper from dc and the live with it speech. what i wanted is for the dealer to be an advocate for me with the dc rep. that didn't happen and i probably will go elsewhere. i realize you are in a thankless position. however, most reasonable peoplewill appreciate honesty and a sincere attempt from the dealership to represent their interests with the mother ship!!!!!!!!

 

[RustyJC]

Re: dealerships

Originally posted by brucew

i have a 01. 5 ctd with an auto that fails to engage if i leave it sit more than 3 days. dealer gave me the paper from dc and the live with it speech.

Bruce,



This is a widely-known characteristic of the Mopar torque converter. They drain down after a few days. My 1996 V-10 (same 47RE transmission as the Cummins) did it from day 1. All you have to do is to let the truck idle for 15-30 seconds in neutral after you start it, and the torque converter will be refilled. I don't know what the dealer could honestly be expected to do other than tell you, "That's normal - they all do that" because they do.



Rusty

 

[1tuffram]

wayne

Have question that maybe you can answer. This relates to my many "unable to verify" or "unable to detect" responces on work order slips. I have a problem with these responses, let me explain a situation I had. Since my truck was new I always had problems engaging the transfer case. At first I thought it was me since this was my first 4x4. It would grind and felt like the linkage was binding. Sometimes it was so difficult to get into 4 high I would almost go off the road due to my struggling with the shifter lever. Did not matter what speed was driving, only time engaged properly was if I stopped the truck and shifted into 4 high. I made many trips to dealerships through the warranty. Was always told nothing was wrong with the transfer case and I must not know what I'm doing. I would always get the ol' "unable to verify, no problem found" response on paper. Never once did any of the dealerships actually test drive and try for themselves, they where just sure as hell I was the problem and quickly send me out the door. approx 5-6K out of warranty the transfer case goes out. I go to the dealer with my 3 yrs of work orders documenting transfer case problems. Dealer talked to DC and reviewed the work orders plus all the little comments you guys put in the computer system. DC's stance was... there was no problem with the transfer case while in warranty because each time I took it in for a complaint the dealerships was unable to verify a problem existed. When I talked to the dealer about this he said DC saw the work slips with the comments "no problem found", etc so in there eye nothing was ever wrong with the transfer case. When the transfer case was rebuilt by an independent shop they found a broken and defective part which was consistent with my 3 yrs of documented complaints. Can you say "got screwed on that one" !!!!!





NOW my question is, is there a way to refuse to allow dealers to repeatdly use "unable to verify", etc responses for a problem you keep complaining about??? Seems like even if you create a paper record documenting a problem, if the dealer says it does not exist, then DC believes the same. I think this is a tactic of "blowing-off" the customer thru the warranty period, then when it finally breaks out of warranty DC uses dirty tactics like, "sorry can't help because it's out of warranty" or "we where never able to find a problem with it while it was under warranty, so sorry. "



I would like to better arm myself for my next truck. I'm sure there is some way to get problems resolved, just have to know the correct process of who to talk too and how to get the dealer to word things on paper

 

[exfuzz01]

dealer service

Try Tacoma Dodge in Tacoma, Washington... I take my truck there for service etc... ... . and only 1 warranty problem which they took care of at once... They even call you at home to let you know whats going on... ... !!









2001 Laramie, QC, long bed, auto, 4:10 gears, lineX liner, Smitty built nerf bars, tripple pillar mount gauges. . otherwise stock.

 

[wtrenholm]

1tuffram



Sorry to hear about that one, that's the kind of service that does give us the bad name. The documenting of the problem should have gave you some backing. I used to call the DC zone office on problems that occured just out of warranty. Sometimes DC would cover the repair, sometimes they would authorize some kind of split, sometimes I got told no. At this point you should certainly call the 1-800 number for Customer Assistance to try open a claim and see what may come of that. Your repair is proof that service was needed. This is assuming that your repair is related to your original complaint.



I can't see any way of totally eliminating the "No Problem Found" deal. Try find a way to get someone to experience your problem. I went for many rides with customers, them driving (some scary rides too) and/or me driving to see what was going on. Trying to see if together we could make the duplicate the problem. I drove some customer cars 60 miles home and back (with their pemission) to find problems. I had them bring their truck / trailer combo to duplicate. Occasionally we'd do oil analysis on suspected compnents before removal / teardown. One customer that was now slightly out of warranty, said his trans was slipping in his pickup and another shop drove it multiple times with NPF. We drove it and it acted fine, he said he could feel better it when he towed his boat. He lived on my way home so I stopped and drove with his monster Lake Superior boat on the trailer. Sure enough, once warmed up third gear would start going away, a few phone calls and a week or so later it was replaced with DC paying almost the whole bill. Then when it came time to buy a new truck he went else where because he saved a couple hundred bucks, which bummed me out.



I tried to help out just about anyway I could with in reason, and would go the extra mile for a pleasant or loyal customer. It's a shame that experiences like yours are all too common. To repeat myself the trick it to find the right shop.



Hope you get some results,

Wayne

 

[Alaskaskiff]

Finding a good service location

I'm thinking from reading this that a good way (if there is one) to ensure fair treatment from a mopar service center is to ask them if anyone in the shop is a TDR mbr first. With an answer to the affirmative, I would more than likely be willing to let them near my truck.



Just an idea... (worth 2 shares of Taliban stock)

 

[redneckdr]

service

i guess i'm really lucky. i take my truck back to the dealer where i bought it, and they treat me really nice. at least at the small dealers, they recognize me as "one of their own", and always treat me tops. i guess it really helps to develop a good relationship with the service people where you buy your ride. they always get me in and out when i need anything, often while i wait. AND it was the diesel tech who told me about TDR. and, no, i won't tell you all his name... ... ... ... . no way you can get even with him

 

[1tuffram]

wayne

Thanks for the reply. Actually a claim file was opened on the matter. While the dealer was "checking into it" with DC I went to a highly recommenced local transmission shop (which eventually did the rebuild) and explained the situation. I think the guy really felt for me and said he doubt DC would do anything, but it would not hurt to call them directly and open a claim. I had no idea how to do this so he said he would. I got my owners and warranty manuals and he found the 1-800 number and placed the call right there. He explained his findings and what my previous documented complaints where, etc. and got a case number. I know he made the call cause I was there when he did, he asked them if they wanted to talk to me, DC said it was not necessary DC basically told him they would only listen to reason from a Dodge dealer in regards to what was wrong with the T-case and if related to the documentation I had. A few days later it was back to the dealer to see what was up. Dealer said DC MAY, just MAY be willing to split the cost of the repair depending the finding of a teardown inpection, which could ONLY be done by a Dodge dealer not an independent shop (sounded like a one sided deal to me). I asked so what if it's found my documentation correlates with the findings, dealer said DC would review everything and PROBABLY authorize an out of warranty repair. Everything sounded really wishy-washy if or how much of the costs would be covered. The dealer pointed out if the inspection findings where not to my favor I would be responsible for all costs, including the inspection (which would take 6-8hrs @ their shop rate of close to $60/hr). At this point is when the dealer told me he doubted DC was going to do anything because of the "no problem found" comments on the work orders and the computer system. I did not want to take a gamble on getting reamed once agian by DC and another dealer so I told him thanks for his time and effort and he could call DC back and tell them where to file my claim I feel it worked out for the best, since I had big doubts about letting the dealer rebuild my T-case, I really wanted the "pro's" to do the work, but dealer said DC would NEVER authorize an independent shop to do the repairs. I was willing to pay the labor if they supplied the parts, still no dice.



This was my worst run-in with DC and warranty work. Won't go into my leaking real axle seals and subsequent rear brake shoes, whole nother story, or the 5 star dealer who ordered parts, said they where installed and even wrote on work order they where but never installed the parts, etc. Yes, my 3 yr warranty period was very frustrating no matter where I went. Fianlly when the warranty expired I bought the DC service manual, all the tech training manuals (which are very lame, no wonder these people don't know what they are doing), and a service manual from Cummins. Armed with that and the vast knowledge of the TDR I have confidence I can do my own repairs now.



Wayne as you can see I have had my fair share of getting jacked around by dealers and blown-off by the cooperate process. I ask how does a person proceed when getting nowhere with a dealer over problems? I know there has to be a "process" or places to file complaints (local better buisness bureau, state attorney general??). I have never got any results when contacting DC, basically told it's up to the dealer to determine if my complaint is valid or not. I was at one of Dave Smith's Jamboree's a few years back and spoke to the regoinal rep about problems like mine. He said he was aware problems like this exist, but DC is more receptive and has open ears to what the dealship has to say, so don't come running to him expecting results. Please help me on this. Eventhough I have had bad warranty repair experiences, I still plan on purchasing a 2002 truck. I just want to be better armed (informed) the second time around.



PS: why is it when you take a truck into a service dept for warranty work the first thing asked is "did you purchase the vehicle from us"? You all say it does not matter and any/all Dodge service depts will work on the truck equally well. But i feel they is some favoritism there due to nature of the question and how it's asked. As far as the selling dealer giving the best service, I found that is bunk. I went back a few weeks after purchasing my truck saying there was a "popping" (the now infamous RAM steering pop) in the steering, service dept and tech said it could need same grease in the steering components because they have seen them come dry from the factory. I asked if they could check to see if that was the case because I had no grease gun. Was told to go buy a grease gun So I left and went to Wal-mart and purchased a grease gun on the way home. Guess I should have known from this it was all down hill.

 

[Big MAK]

Sounds like Jim's Dodge in Omaha, Nebraska.

They almost never honor appointments.



Woodhouse in Blair, Nebraska does honor appointments. They don't always get it right but they shoot straight and give it a good try. It's 30 miles out of the way (one way) but well worth the drive.



Find a competent shop and never go back to the other one.

 

[boonsur]

Two Greatest Days of My Life

The day when I finally found a good dealer who fixed the ongoing problem once-and-for all, no questions asked.



The other was the day the warranty ran out and I had to take care of things myself. Whether it be fixing it myself, or taking it to and independent shop, I'd rather pay a little more and have it done right, than fight with the stealership over what should be a free-fix, only to have the same junk put in that it came with originally.

 

[Turbo Thom]

Just for everybodys knowledge, if your are ever traveling down I-85 into Georgia and are in need of a truck work, check out Murdock CP in Lavonia, Georgia. I live 145 miles from there and had a transmission burn up and was towed there. Ordered one from ST in Texas, it arrived friday at 1:30. At 5:30 I was headed home with no trouble . Work was complete and I was shown what was done as they did it. I just wish I was closer to them.



You won't go wrong.



. . Preston. .

 

[Bad340fish]

Two thumbs up go to Mike Quinn Dodge in Tulsa OK. I didn't buy my truck from them but they have a great service department. I took my truck in for a Coolant noise TSB. They ordered the part and called me when it was in. I took my truck in at 8am for the TSB fix and to have the driver door adjusted. They called me at 10:45 telling me it was ready to pick up. Both problems were fixed.



I also bounced it off of a wall on the highway(with no body damage somehow). Had to have the spindle and lower control arm replaced. They did it in one day and put the best alignment job I have ever driven. Of course it was only a $965 dollar ticket



Clark

 

[wtrenholm]

1tuffram,



Where you are at now is out of my realm of knowledge. I don't have any answers on what to do from here. Calling Chrysler Customer Assistance is the "fix" for poor dealer service. From my experience, the folks at Customer Assistance were helpful and would usually work out some kind of deal. They didn't want to lose a loyal customer over a service bill. There was cases of car transmissions being 100% covered with 10,000 miles out of warranty. But the key here is that I was an advocate for the customer that was deserving of some help.



The dork at the dealership telling you that the t-case inspection could cost you 6-8 hours is a complete BS. Chrysler warranty time, on my Alldata program at school here, shows . 9 hours to replace the assembly and 3. 7 hours to remove, overhaul and reinstall. So where did this clown come up with 8 hours. I figure he wanted to scare you away (using your pocketbook). And telling you that DC was going to deny the claim because of the NPF finding on previous Repair Orders was more crap, I don't buy it. I wonder what he had going on? Too bad there wasn't a good dealer to assist you with your Customer Assistance claim, I feel your results would have been far different.



As far as "Did you buy the truck from us?" If some dealer denies warranty work on those grounds, that's another call to Customer Assistance to get their butt in a jam. A dealer can not deny work on that basis, who knows what kind of service you'll get from them though. About 80% plus of my shop gross was warranty work and I didn't care where it came from, Chrysler always paid a legitiment claim on time. Not too mention if a customer liked the service department they just may buy that next car at your place.



And one more thing. To be a Five Star dealer you have to meet certain criteria; good survey results from sales and service, up to date staff training from DC, to name a couple. BUT- what does that mean? Hey, I'm ASE master certified. BUT- what does that mean. Or the next guy has some Masters Degree hangin on the wall. BUT- what does that mean. It simply means that you were able to pass some test, jump through some hoops, play the game. It does not mean that I'm moral, honest or competent. It's just a piece of paper, proof is the pudding.



Wayne

 

[ftb87]

1tuffram,



What dealership did you purchase your truck from? I purchased mine from Castle Motors... no service problems yet (knock on wood).



Frank

 

[1tuffram]

ftb87,

I purchased my truck new from Valley Auto Dodge in Wenatchee, WA in Jan of '95. Would not buy from there again. Did not know of Dave Smith Motors (wish I really did), paid invoice plus dealer mark-up. Dealer refused to deal, said "these trucks are selling faster than we can get them, why should we make you a deal?". The thing which really fries me about the whole deal was I specifically said I wanted all the HD drive train components when the order was placed. I specifically pointed out the literature showing two transfer case options for the 2500 and if I needed to get the snow plow pkg for the HD t-case. Salesman said no need, it will be there "The diesels only come with the most heavy duty drive train componets Dodge has". A few weeks after delivery I noticed the sticker under hood stated NV241 standard. Went back to dealer to raise some hell. Salesman and manager disappear for 10min (enough time for a smoke and cup of coffee) and return stating all the books show only one t-case option for the diesel, and they could find no mention of a "heavy duty" NV-241. They said they called headquarters about it and was told they never heard of a HD t-case option for the diesels. I then asked why the snow plow pkg specifically states a HD t-case. I was told I had the heavy duty t-case, the Dodge literature/pamphlets showing a HD t-case option where WRONG/MISPRINTED, and the hood sticker was saying I had the standard t-case for the diesel... ... which is only heavy duty. Make what you want of it, but looking back I believe they knew they had screwed-up, and lied to me becasue I knew no better at the time (damn, where was the TDR back then?)





Wayne,

Your response verifies suspicions I have gathered when dealing with warranty work issues. Like I said I'm happy I paid to have a transmission shop do the rebuild over an incompetent dealership.



Next question is a "what if... . " type thing for future reference since I plan on purchasing a 2002 later this year. "IF" I am having problems with resolving a warranty issue ("unable to verify" type of thing) and say I'm kind of stuck with dealing with them becasue the next dealership is a very long distance, what are my options (other than going from dealer to dealer endlessly)? What is the correct line action for resolving the problem? Who do I contact next: dealership owner, DC, zone rep??? what is the "chain of command" for action? Service depts never offer "you need to contact joe at this phone number to get this resolved". They leave it up to the customer to figure out what to do, and this is where I get shafted since I don't know who to contact or how to find out whom needs to be contacted (And if you ask about seeing someone "higher-up", then the wall goes up between customer and service dept and you get nothing but ATTITUDE and they try to feed me a BS line of the problem is all in my head and nothings wrong with my truck). My experience with DC customer service 1-800 # is a WASTE of time. Service dept does not offer the numbers of people to call at headquarters who can get results. They refer you to that 1-800 number in the owners manual full well knowing they won't know I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER and will not be able to help.

WHY THE RELUCTANCE TO DO WARRANTY REPAIRS? My suspicion is dealer can make more $$$$ by charging customers for out of warranty work, therefore the desire or priority goes to "paying" customers and the warranty repair people either get blown off or put on the back burner and fit in when convenient. Wayne I'm not attacking you, for you sound like a legit & honest guy, but please help me to be able to do "battle" with all these other SOB service depts I tend to go round and round with.

 

[Alaskaskiff]

Far be it for me to support the dealer point of view (see above), but the T-case thing is rather confusing. The service manual states that only the heavy duty version is used in V-10 and diesel, but if you look at the 1995 sales brochure (yes I still have mine) it shows that the only way to get the HD T-case is by purchasing the snow plow pkg, which is not avail on the CC. There is definitely a NVG241 and a 241HD. They are both listed in the FSM. The big differences are the availabliity of a PTO drive addition (you can tell by the PTO access plate or looking at the T-case tag) and added support for the output shaft by way of an added bearing. There is a link off Dave Fritz's site where a company sells the parts to upgrade if one was so inclined.

 

[rkressg]

Dealer Warrantys

I would not trust my dealer as far as I could spit. My dealer is 35 miles from my house. There are closer Dodge dealers, but they would fill it up with gas. They have no idea what diesel even means. My last truck had major problems, 2 engines, 1 transmission, 1 rearend, $1000 worth of brake problems repairs, granted it was all waranted but I ended up arbitrating (sp???) it. With the engines, my dealership refused to let me take it to Cummins. There is a Cummins dealership 1/2 a block from my house. The D/C techs just kept playing with my truck to p!$$ me off. It was the best day of my life when I picked up my new Ram. At 30000 miles I have had no major problems yet.

 

[Mudinchev]

Forgive me if this post goes to the wrong place this is my first posting, like most people posting here I have had a similar experince with Vancover Dodge In Wa. Along with my Ram I have a 2001 4 door Dakota. I took both trucks in for problems in the front end. Just simple things like creeking and poping and loose stearing. After talking to the service rep. I had a good feeling about this place because he was a avid off roader like me. We droped both trucks off and rented a car to get home. They called me the next day about noon and said the Dakota was fixed and what they did and were going to get started on the Ram. I got to the dealer about 5pm and was told the same old story about how they had 2 different people drive the Ram and could find nothing wrong, instantly I could feel my blood pressure rise and my face get red. We drove both rigs back home and by the time we got home the "fixed" Dakota was not fixed again. But we had a handy dandy list of over $1000 dollars of service items that they would be happy to take care of on the Dakota. Which included $100 for changing the power stearing fluid $150 to change the spark plugs "major tune up 40,000 miles" $350 to change dif and transmission fluid. Does any one see where I am going with this? "Dont fix it the first time, get them back in here so we can sc*w the dumb folks out of their hard erned money. After calling the service mamager because I could not get the serveice Rep. to return a phone call he tried blowing smoke up my A** about they were just following Crysler protocall. So go ahead and rent your wife a car again and we will be happy to fix her truck again. Now I know why I do it my self, ya I might have to buy the parts and take the cance of not getting it right the fist time but I tell ya what my temper is far better because of it. The bigest thing I learned here was warrantys are for the most part usless, if you have half a brain. Can any one tell where I can get my hands on factory service manuals, "the ones that they have in their shop" not the public version. My local dealer said they are not availble but there again theres that "D" word again. From my limited experience with Mcord Brothers here in Longview Wa they are one of the shadiest dealers in this area so I cant trust a word they say. Any help on this matter would be apreciated. -- email address removed -- (Yes Chev I own two of them along with my two Dodges, I was born and bread Chevy and never thought I would own a Dodge but Chevy hasn't impressed me in the last 15 yrs, it took them that long to find a decent Deisel, but there was no way I was going to buy a "proto type" when Dodge has been running tried and true Cummins for longer than I can remember and the drive train is the stongest of the bunch.