Tornado Fuel Saver

[GSatler]

FORREST: I INSTALLED THIS IN THE RUBBER FLEX JOINT BETWEEN OUTPUT OF INTERCOOLER PIPE & AIRHORN. WORKS FOR ME. U HAVE A 30 DAY RETURN ON THIS TRY IT GREGG

 

[Wheaties]

I agree with y-knot. Someone who has just spent $60 invested in a tornado has a $60 interest in seeing an improvement. They'll start up slower, stay off the gas more, coast down to lights and stop signs for longer--even if they only do it subconsciously. It's a safe bet that the new, improved tornado is really the same old tornado, just costs twice as much, and folks will drive that much more carefully.



Hardly anyone will spend $60 to prove it doesn't work, most who buy it are interested in proving that it does.



Matt

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

O. K and Now it's in the incoming air piping. Now the Turbo's drive pressures have changed due to a restriction of flow (Remember our trucks not only create pressure but consume volume as well)



Haven't your EGT's risen at all? Me personaly I refuse to install anything PRE turbo (TAG) as all it takes is one single piece of that tag to seperate and go into a blade spinning at 156,000 rpms = grenade. Or post turbo (Tornado) as all it takes is a piece to make it past the grid heaters if not ground it out completely and burn the truck to the ground , or get wedged in a valve or worse hang it open (4,500 dollar oops) .



Just my 2 cents that all

 

[fortunate1]

Let's see now...

The "Tornado" spins things up a bit before intake; the "TAG" tries to do the opposite - straighten out the airflow. Who's right?? I do know that pilots much prefer flying into straight, non-turbulent air. And I think I can remember some piston crowns that were supposed to "swirl" the air/fuel mixture inside the combustion chamber to make sure that it spread out for better burning and didn't just sit there in the middle when the spark hit. Who's right?? Very different theories, but very little empirical data available for comparison.



I think that more careful/conservative driving habits will yield as much or better mpg increase as either of the "T" devices will.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Re: Let's see now...

Originally posted by fortunate1

And I think I can remember some piston crowns that were supposed to "swirl" the air/fuel mixture inside the combustion chamber to make sure that it spread out for better burning and didn't just sit there in the middle when the spark hit.

Honda "HSC" High Swirl Combustion

 

[RustyJC]

The TAG is a flow straightening device that is addressing a design flaw in our trucks. In order to provide the turbocharger's impeller with clean, non-turbulent flow, industrial engine practice has required 5 diameters of straight pipe (e. g. , a 15" straight run of 3" pipe) at the inlet to a turbocharger for decades - obviously, the curved inlet duct leading to our turbos doesn't meet this criteria.



When installation restrictions make this impossible, flow straightening devices are used. One approach is the installation of turning vanes in the inlet piping elbow closest to the turbocharger. Another is the installation of a flow straightening device such as the TAG. I've never seen a TAG in the flesh, so I'm using the following dimensions just for illustration. If you have a nest of straight tubes (like a honeycomb) in a TAG with the individual tubes being, let's say, 3/8" id, then if the TAG were 5 x 3/8" thick (15/8", or 1-7/8" thick), it would "trick" the turbo into thinking that it has a straight run of 5 diameters of inlet piping feeding the impeller.



If the turbocharger impeller is compressing non-turbulent air, compressor efficiency should increase and noise should decrease.



Rusty

 

[JMcDowell]

garbage

:Just my humble opinion.

 

[RustyJC]

Re: garbage

Originally posted by JMcDowell

GARBAGE! :Just my humble opinion.

Sir, does your reference to GARBAGE refer to my explanation? I'm a mechanical engineer by training who has worked for an industrial engine manufacturer for over 30 years. In addition to building the engines, we also design and build our own turbochargers. What are your technical credentials that qualify you to dismiss my post so readily?



Rusty

 

[snowracer69]

Rusty, I don't think he was talking about your explanation, as it is a very good one. Studying to be an aerospace engineer myself, and what you said is what I tried to say earlier, but I don't have enough experience with fluid flow to put it into good words that make sense.



Your last sentence basically sums up the reason a TAG should work.



Josh

 

[DPelletier]

I own a company that specializes in particulate extraction and high static blowers, mostly fume and dust extraction systems. From experience in different duct designs, etc. I can tell you that Rusty is right as far as air flow characteristics are concerned. Despite this, there is no information that I have found that would indicate that the benifits of the TAG are more than incremental at best (in this application). If there were a serious deficiency in the turbo inlet pipe design, I believe it wouldn't have made it out of Cummins' R&D dept. I doubt it can hurt though, except slightly increasing the static pressure upstream of the turbo and perhaps increasing the chance of the turbo ingesting parts of the TAG if it were ever to suffer some kind of structural failure.

This Tornado, on the other hand, follows no real engineering philosophy as far as I can see, and I stand by my previous assertion,... ... snake-oil.



Dave

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by DPelletier

This Tornado, on the other hand, follows no real engineering philosophy as far as I can see, and I stand by my previous assertion,... ... snake-oil.

Agreed. It might have some minor benefit on a port-injected gasoline engine where one is trying to get improved fuel/air mixing as the charge moves down the port and into the combustion chamber, but I can't see where it would do anything beneficial for a direct-injection diesel.



Rusty

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by DPelletier

Despite this, there is no information that I have found that would indicate that the benifits of the TAG are more than incremental at best (in this application). If there were a serious deficiency in the turbo inlet pipe design, I believe it wouldn't have made it out of Cummins' R&D dept.

Dave,



If, like me, you pull a heavy 5th wheel RV, you may have experienced the mysterious "whoop-whoop" coming from the turbo area at full throttle/high boost/high airflow conditions (like when climbing a steep grade in 6th gear). For me, the proof of the pudding insofar as the benefit of the TAG is concerned is when several people whose trucks experience this problem post, "Yes, my truck made the noise, but I installed the TAG and it's gone!" Until I see that, I'm cautiously sceptical as well, but at least the TAG has some sound aerodynamic theory working in its favor.



Rusty

 

[DPelletier]

Yes, I can see that the "whoop - whoop" or "chuffing" sound that people have reported under load is likely caused by air-flow issues. In these circumstances, I can see the TAG being of some use. I just wouldn't get one for any percieved performance or mileage increase.

I have yet to haul my regular load (Bigfoot 25C9. 5 and loaded Wells Cargo = 8,500 lbs) with the new truck. I have hauled just the trailer without my motorcycles, but that scarcely slows the truck down!

If I experience the aforemented noises under full load/full boost conditions, I would consider the TAG as I agree that "it has some sound aerodynamic theory".



Cheers

Dave

 

[Car_nut57]

Fellows, a lot of discussion in this thread about the TAG and what it is supposed to do. The TAG was invented to make the incoming air into the compressor smooth and directed to make the turbo more efficient. We do our best to try and explain how the TAG works on our website http://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/tag and report confirmed results of testing, such as the dramatic reduction in emissions on the 03 Cummins. The TAG is intended to maximize compressor wheel efficiency which results in a larger about of air in with less work, which in turn reduces exhaust back pressure against the turbine side of the turbo as well. With less exhaust back pressure and more air in combustion efficiency of the engine is better.



The TAG is stainless steel honeycomb with the surfaces between each cell welded in a SS shell with flange and the entire part is furnace brazed for strength. If you are nervous about this being drawn into the turbo causing a failure don't buy it. The TAG is as strong as we can make it without compromising performance.



If you try the TAG and do not like it for any reason, simply return it for a full refund. So you guys who say it doesn't work can try it without risk and come to your own conclusions.



Maybe some using the TAG will chime in and report their results. Its not a Tornado!

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by Car_nut57

If you are nervous about this being drawn into the turbo causing a failure don't buy it.

With no disrespect intended, as a potential consumer I'd rather see a warranty against structural failure wherein your company would cover the resultant damage than the caveat above.



Rusty

 

[JMcDowell]

NO DISCREDIT INTENDED

Garbage product, not your ANALysist. Even if I did think your post

was garbage (wich I dont) I would have more respect than that.

 

[Car_nut57]

Originally posted by RustyJC

With no disrespect intended, as a potential consumer I'd rather see a warranty against structural failure wherein your company would cover the resultant damage than the caveat above.



Rusty

That would be a fantastic warranty! After market products usually only cover the parts them selves not anything else. We cover our TAG with your satisfaction or your money back.

 

[Rman]

TTT you paint these pictures of doom and gloom, trucks burning to the ground, turbo's exploding with fierce fury. My gosh do you walk around looking for airplanes that are going to crash into yourself? You were probably exaggerating to prove a point, but i know someone who acts like that and it's a rather strange feeling to be around.



Every warning on a product, every public notice, anything remotely dangerous and she totally flips her lid. It's a sad way to live thru life but that's what anxiety is i guess. Anyways, it's just a turbo, aftermarket's are relatively cheap anyways. Don't act like all of your children are going to be sacrificed and your home will be taken away if a tiny piece of metal breaks off.



Hey, keep your head down, you never know when a 757 might be baring down on ya! haha

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by Car_nut57

That would be a fantastic warranty! After market products usually only cover the parts them selves not anything else. We cover our TAG with your satisfaction or your money back.

Actually, such warranties are not that uncommon. Most oil filter manufacturers will repair, rebuild or replace an engine if their filter comes apart.



Rusty

 

[WadePatton]

Cummins engineering

Peek under the hood of a CR truck and you'll see that the battery was moved rearward and the airbox forward--straightening the airflow to the turbo as well as getting a better supply of cool air. I think, I didn't stay under there too long--too quiet.



Now that goes along with the TAG theory.



Now if we could get them to leave the mufflers off and make stacks a factory option.