Tornado Fuel Saver

[snowracer69]

Originally posted by RustyJC

With no disrespect intended, as a potential consumer I'd rather see a warranty against structural failure wherein your company would cover the resultant damage than the caveat above.



Rusty

Yeah, what he said! I was reading this thread going "ya know, $130 to cure my huffing/barking problem would be pretty cheap if it worked, especially if they'll give me my money back if it doesn't" then you say the whole "nervous" thing, which, well yeah I am pretty nervous that if I get a TAG that was built on a Monday, and it goes through my $1700 turbo compressor I'll be SOL and have to pay for your short-comings on this one piece.



Guess I'll start throwing parts at the turbo itself instead.....

 

[Car_nut57]

snowracer69,



Guys, the TAG is not going through any turbos. I did put one through my own turbo during the testing phase which is why the TAG is so strong now. Ask anybody who is using one how strong they are. I think we currently have a couple of hundred TDR TAG users and no one is reporting any sort of failure, if they had, we would all know about it.

 

[snowracer69]

I'm not dissing on your product... if you read back a page or so you'll see that I was one of the first to validate the theory behind it when everyone was bashing it because of how it's supposed to work...



I just wish a company would come out with a written, or even a VERBAL warranty to a customer that states: "If our product fails, we will replace it and anything it damages at absolutely no cost to the buyer. " And then, STAND BEHIND IT!!!



Got hosed for $200 already because of people saying "it won't break... you can't break OUR stuff" and then, low-and-behold, it went and broke!

 

[DPelletier]

Car_Nut57,

Thanks for the info.

Dave

 

[Hohn]

Originally posted by snowracer69

While I agree the tornado is voodo junk (at least on a Cummins, no comment on them on gassers), how can you say the TAG is? Do you not understand aerodynamics or fluid flow at all? Do you not realize how much improved the flow is if it is laminar and non-turbulent, compared to if it is rotating and turbulent?



No, I don't have a TAG, nor have I tried one... all I know is that the theory behind the TAG is sound, and from reports from those that have tried it they seem to work. Straighten out the air, and more can flow easily... that's the way fluid flow works...

Ditto every single word.



JLH

 

[Hohn]

Originally posted by DPelletier

blah blah... ... . If there were a serious deficiency in the turbo inlet pipe design, I believe it wouldn't have made it out of Cummins' R&D dept... ..... blah blah



Dave

Flawed reasoning. It would be nice if the OEMs simply did things the best way possible. Though I hve to ask, if the OEMs do everything as good as possible, why is there an aftermarket???



Fact is, the bean counters get more of a say than the engineers do.



The TAG may not let you run 500hp with a stock HX35 @15psi and get 32mpg, but it DOES work. The reasoning is SOUND and well-accepted in aerospace circles-- proven to be true over 60 plus years of aerodynamic and turbine design studies.



If you still believe the OEMs do things the best... Well, why no thermal barrier coatings on exhaust housings, exhaust manifolds and piston crowns? COST, plain and simple.

 

[evldsl]

Do the TAG units work on the venturi principal ?

 

[snowracer69]

no, they work on the principal that air that is rotating causes more friction and doesn't flow as well as air that is flowing straight (laminar) and is non-turbulent (much less friction). When you straighten the flow out, and it can flow smoother and easier (less friction) then the turbo doesn't have to work as hard to get the air it requires to produce the boost it wants to.



The venturi principal really isn't a principal at all... it's actually continuity that causes the air velocity to increase at it goes from a larger diameter area into a smaller diameter area. m=pva=constant. The same amount of mass will flow over a given surface (boundary you choose basically) so if you decrease the area it flows through, the velocity has to increase to keep the same mass flow rate.



Anybody correct anything that is wrong w/ what I've typed... it's early.

 

[Rman]

Originally posted by Hohn

Flawed reasoning. It would be nice if the OEMs simply did things the best way possible. Though I hve to ask, if the OEMs do everything as good as possible, why is there an aftermarket???



Fact is, the bean counters get more of a say than the engineers do.



The TAG may not let you run 500hp with a stock HX35 @15psi and get 32mpg, but it DOES work. The reasoning is SOUND and well-accepted in aerospace circles-- proven to be true over 60 plus years of aerodynamic and turbine design studies.



If you still believe the OEMs do things the best... Well, why no thermal barrier coatings on exhaust housings, exhaust manifolds and piston crowns? COST, plain and simple.

Hohn, Bean counters have a big say... but so does a budget. Sometimes things have to been done in a not so perfect way because doing it the right way would just plain cost too much. I've heard the term sloppy engineering, being an engineer myself, I'd like to point out if you want a "quality" totally engineered truck, then get ready to shell out some serious dollars for it. It's called cost benefit analysis, if the benefits don't justify your costs of doing it, then buh-bye with your nifty idea.



Anyways, just piggy backing off your post on cost and bean counters.

 

[DPelletier]

Hohn,



I understand what you're saying. I did say that I believe that the TAG is based on sound engineering principle. Regardless, I stand by my comment. If there was a SERIOUS design flaw in the turbo inlet pipe it wouldn't have been built that way. As you say, OEM's are always weighing the cost. Wouldn't cost Cummins much to have a different shaped turbo pipe, or to install a factory TAG, for that matter. To be clear: I believe (based on my experience) that the TAG concept is sound engineering principle, but I don't believe that you will see 4 mpg or an extra 25 hp using it!

Cummins has spent some serious dollars redesigning our engines lately in 2003 and 2004. 5. If a big advantage would be gained from a redesign of the turbo pipe, I have some faith that they would have done it.

Anyway, my original response was to the "Tornado Fuel Saver" and nothing has changed my mind in that regard.



As I said before, if I experience some of the full load/full boost turbo noises that others have reported, I'll order a TAG right away. But I won't expect to notice a significant change in fuel economy or performance.



Cheers



Dave

 

[Hohn]

I see more of what you are saying. Sorry If I mistook you.



I would still like to see thermal barriers on the hot parts-- manifold, turbine housing, etc...



Justin

 

[A Johnson]

Originally posted by Hohn

Fact is, the bean counters get more of a say than the engineers do.

AHHHH grasshopper you have found the truth!!!!!!!!!!



A later post by you refered to thermal barriers on hot parts. Cummins Northwest is currently doing this to some C series engines used in underground mining. We pull the head and send it out for a coating (not sure what it is, but it is black colored) on the exhaust side of the head and then reinstall the head. I believe they are running water jacket exhaust manifolds also. So you are very correct in that engineers don't get to do all they would like. Besides if they made a perfect engine , what improvement could they use to help sell the engine next year.



A Johnson

 

[WadePatton]

Originally posted by DPelletier



Cummins has spent some serious dollars redesigning our engines lately in 2003 and 2004. 5. If a big advantage would be gained from a redesign of the turbo pipe, I have some faith that they would have done it.

they did.

 

[GSatler]

I TRIED THE TAG. IT DIDN'T DO WHAT I EXPECTED. I SENT IT BACK. I BOUGHT A TORNADO, IT WORKED. I GET PAYED $. 35 PER MILE EVERY CENT I SAVE IS MINE. I WILL KEEP THE TORNADO.

 

[ltstauffer]

I am convinced that driving without pants will save fuel(due to reduced GVW) but I am not planning on trying it.

 

[DTroy]

Bingo!



Let's reduce our Gross Weight for better fuel mileage. I'm



going to drain the engine oil to 1/2 full, as well as the coolant,



power steering fluid, brake fluid, etc...



Then I'm going to replace the air in my tires with helium! After



that I'll replace my spare tire with one from a Yugo. Hmm,



maybe I can remove the rear brake rotors to save some major



pounds.



I think we're on to something!

 

[jungledave]

They don't work on ANY engine, turbo or not. If they were such a real effective idea that would boost power and fuel economy they would come installed from the factory.

 

[snowracer69]

what exactly are you talking about jungledave?



Way to throw that info out there with absolutely no facts or basis to back it up.



Are you talking about the TAG or the tornado, and please explain why you feel this way?

 

[Hohn]

Let's summarize:



Tornado= scam



TAG- sound engineering, subtle improvement-- so subtle that Cummins didn't think the cost/benefit was there.



Justin

 

[Koa Man]

Car and Driver magazine did an extended test on the Tornado and found mileage and performance improved 0. 0%.



GSatler, turn off the caps. It makes the post hard to read and is considered to be equal to yelling in email or forum discussions.