Torque Converter Percent?

[Cummins Corvette]

Bill- What is all that stuff? I am guessing that one of those is an input shaft.



As far as explaining stall speed, it is different in EVERY APPLICATION!!! My 91% converter can have anywhere between a 0 and 1000 rpm drop. So trying to describe a converter's tightness by the amount or rpm drop is absolutely fruitless. There are way too many things to figure into the equation. Chris's test is the closest thing to an actual test we have so far. I'm going to throw a wrench into the works by saying that mine drops about 100 rpm in that case.

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

StakeMan,



I posted the pics for my dad, he hasn't got home from work yet. Sorry for the confusion, it's my fault if anyone is lost. I would expect an answer later today or first thing tomorrow morning.

 

[GLASMITHS]

Baaad Pics

:--) Hope that is not an ATS or Sunsumppin

 

[StakeMan]

I doubt thats an ATS. Lets wait and see.

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Under the guidelines for vendors i cannot compare the efficiencies of my tc or fluid coupling vs others.



Tommyturbosaurus,



You are correct , the proper way to do this is through a stall test, however, while i can afford to do a proper stall test it is a very dangerous for the general consumer to do . The picture of the broken output shaft is from Stefans truck. That stall test was done on Valentines evening .



I just finished getting out of the doghouse. Imagine this , Stefan and i had a difference of opinion . Stefan believed you could not break the transmission just by doing a stall test. I maintained it was easy to do and only takes a few seconds.



Boys being boys forgetting we had Valentines plans went outside the shop and we did a stall test on Stefans truck. Comp on 5 X5, insane in the membrane injectors, truck hit 2200 rpms, stalled at 2200rpms, 38 lbs of boost , snap went the output shaft.



With the amount of torque these dodge rams are making we are finding that the internal components of the 47 rh, & re transmission simply cannot handle the torque.



I will tell you this, we had a nice family valentines day.

I cant speak for if Stefan is out of the doghouse yet.



With the new wave of guys drag racing these trucks, sled pulling , and the size of the 5th wheel trailers that is one of the main reasons we now do cryogenic components and manufacture billet input shafts and our own hubs instead of the factory cast hubs.



While a true stall test is the most accurate way of measuring fluid coupling it is a dangerous proceedure to do.



The broken input shaft in one of the pics above is from someone who thought he could shift locked to locked, he got away with it for almost 10,000 miles.



The stripped hub was also from someone who thought he could shift locked to locked.



What is really intersting guys is that the 2000 + model rams are capable of shifting 3rd locked to 4th locked but set to do so at factory hp and factory torque specs, it was not intended for the hp levels that some of you guys are making. Hence the broken parts.

 

[GLASMITHS]

Torque Converter Percent

With Stefans post, my question has to be answered.



I'm glad now that Bill K. did not come right out and answer my question. It would have violated summpin. So the 89% is the mildest and we will go with that.



But isn't 89% in one truck the same in the other? Does each converter operate differently in different power settings? If they need to be indivially build to the specific truck; then it is understandable why the "off the shelf" or mass produced don't work so hot.



I was going to do the 2500rpm test tomorrow, but that would be 80mph Not in LA I won't

 

[Jim Fulmer]

My 89

I tested so the other day and If I'm doing 70@2k and unlock the converter with my foot switch it will gain about 75RPM under normal driving load, If I then jam on it it will flash to say 2200 before it starts to pull you into the seat. Now from a stop if I try what Bill and Stefan did with my stock stuff I could rev it to 2800 and hold it all with the brakes, now it will make it to 1600 then override the brakes and spin. My truck has a little lag because of the 16cm housing but I have notice that it got no worse with the transmission upgrade, if you mat it at 20 MPH now you better hope your on good pavement cause when it downshifts it will spin'em through 3rd.



Jim

 

[Lsfarm]

Differnces in trucks, tests

Glasmiths, you need to find a DTT equiped truck to drive if it is at all a possibility. This will answer virtually all the questions.



From what you say about your current TC still allowing the engine to rev to 2200 rpm under light throttle from a standstill, I'd have to guess that it is not much different from a stock TC under those conditions. Maybe it is different as the revs climb.



With my 89% TC, from a standstill, if I nail the throttle, the rpm rises to around 1500-1600, boost comes on, the truck tires light up, the truck goes sideways, shifts into second, goes sideways again, and if the pavement is dry, the tires finally connect with the road.



Both Chris [Strick-9] and myself tried to find a simple-to-reproduce test condition to describe the amount of difference between fluid drive and locked TC. I understand, and we stated that this is not a perfect test, but I hope you didn't find it 'fruitless'.



The best test would be under identical conditions, pulling an identical load up a given hill, with no traffic, on the same day, etc. etc. Not practical, or possible. I hope that the info we provided will give you something to compare to. It would be much better if we could all tow the same load for the comparrison, or get together on a dyno somewhere, again, not practical, or possible.



Once you get a chance to drive a DTT TC, I'm sure all of this will make sense.



'New'? saying: 'One drive is worth a thousand words. '



Greg L

 

[RichB59]

My moneys with--

March 11 th my moneys going with Bill K. After all the reading I've done on this site Bill seems to be the best bet for transmission mods out there. Diesel Dynamics is doing the job for me. I would like a little info on the smart control? I'm getting it along with TQ and VB looking forward to a stronger and more efficient truck. Bill I'm with you!!!!

 

[GLASMITHS]

Lsfarm- Your info is great. You just have to understand that my needs are somewhat different; and I never was hooked on speed; and after all that, the locals with K-band don't like it either.



Having said that, I believe that when the converter comes unlocked I gain about 300 rpm. I pull in 3rd/with GV on. When going over a sharp overpass if I don't cancel the cruise control it will go on down and the t/c will unlock? It must be, because if I don't down shift it (the GV) it will go down to 2nd, which means at 55 the engine over-speeds and shuts down Happened twice so I know. The Dodge PCM does not know about the GV, soooooo.



At about 1/3 throttle it shifts in to OD at about 45 mph if the GV is off, and about 2500rpm But listen to this. Since I put the EZ on, and I have the GV on, it does not shift into OD until about 55mph, which is great, especially if you are going up to hwy speed. I love my GV, and I just think I will love it better with the DTT set-up :



RichB59-I'm with you on the smart controller. I asked the question, and got a bunch of BS. It was buried like this so no one saw it; maybe the next topic:-{} :-{} :-{}



Have a nice day all



geo

 

[Lsfarm]

Our Needs

Hi Glasmiths, well I didn't start out thinking I'd enjoy all this power, but I have been seduced by the feel of it!



I was trying to explain how well the DTT 89% hooks the power to the ground. I rarely smoke up my tires, [really, only once or twice ].



I'm not sure why your trans wants to downshift when you are running the GV. Maybe someone else has had the same thing happen and can explain. [don't you love this site?]



I'm in the process of installing my smart-controller, so I may be able to report my impressions of it soon. It should be a real slick setup with an exhaust brake.



I originally went with the DTT mods to make my trans bullet-proof for towing. Then I started adding the extra power. I was always worried about the Auto trans when working the truck hard. I felt that it was the trucks weak link. I have no fears for the transmission now.



I also fear the guys armed with K-band and X-band, and so far have been lucky.



I sure wish you weren't so far away, I'd be glad to offer my truck for a test drive.



Good Luck, Greg L

 

[GLASMITHS]

Greg:



I didn't mean to imply that it only downshifted when the GV was on. Ido not tow in OD, and never put it that far down when empty or light hauling. Really its not that bad. With the GV and in third the rpm stay about 2200 at 60 mph and a little more helph it over the hill with out pulling down.



I have plans to get the work done on the 25of this month, will take 2or more days. I'm having a lot more than trqanny work done, so. There is an RV park across the road from the transmission shop so will be good, no motels. I do plan to be in Flint sometime this spring. that is just North of you. Our youngest son lives there and I am building him a gun cabinet; out of black walnut



and ofcourse I have to deliver it, so. May be just a fast up and back.



I am going to wait one more day for someone with a smart controller; then a new thread gets started.





thanks for the offer





georgeOo.

 

[HVAC]

Pics Of transmission Parts

I'm going to take a guess at the pics-



1. ) Broken input shaft/ unbroken input shaft.



2. ) Broken 4x4 output shaft. Also known as the Chris Sutton syndrome.



3. ) Complete output shaft/ 4x4 version.



4. ) Front hub stripped out.



5. ) Front hub with good splines.

 

[JR2]

I have a way to test the efficiency of your torque converer... go outside and put your truck in drive and tell us how fast it goes down a flat furface at idle. Mine goes about 7 mph and will drive up slight hills too. With the stock stuff it would just sit still. That tells me the fluid coupling is much better than stock.



I too would like to know about the smart controller... any one what to talk about it???

 

[GLASMITHS]

Nooo Flaming , Please

Some time back there was someone posted about going 8mph or there about from idle. So a day later my wife and I stopped dead infront of our house and let the brake off, and it went right up to 7mph; and I said that guy ain't got anything on my milled stator, she said 7, you better look again, it was 12mph from a dead stop. I had just put the EZ elbow on and it was pumping good. The speedo is correct at sixty, that is what mine does. So what are my percentages???





Edit: I do not recall a high tail-wind

 

[Bob Wagner]

Print this and take it to the crapper

http://www.swri.org/3PUBS/BROCHURE/D03/trantch/trantch.HTM

 

[JR2]

Oh I was not trying to flame... if that is how it was taken I am sorry. I just thought it would be an interesing test. It is quite possible that the TC you have is much more efficient than the stock one and it may be that any aftermarket tc will do this, just wanted to see what everyone else gets. Maybe some one with a bone stock truck could try it.

 

[GLASMITHS]

Geeesssh

Bob Wagner:



Is this what you read when you go to the potty? Sounds like a good company and all that, but couldn't find any results.



JR2: I didn't mean to imply that you was flaming. I just figured that the 12 mph sounded a little high. Sooo, I went out just now and did it again!!! Into a good head wind it got 11mph, 12 coming back, this was for about 1/4 mile; and strange, I pushed it down about half and it shoots up to 2200 it got up to 35 mph before I shut down for my drive. It idles good!!



Yes, it is tighter than stock. I knew the minute I put it into gear when I picked it up, after having the t/c put in, that it was much different. You might think that it was slipping; however, in STexas, 110 deg, 26k, transmission temp in pan 160-180. Sooo.



SOMEBODY: What about the smart controllers

 

[Lsfarm]

Smart Controller

Well I just went on my first drive with the DTT Smart Controller hooked up. I don't have the exhaust brake installed yet.



This is a pretty slick box. What it does is to allow you to control when the trans upshifts into Overdrive, without using the O/D button. You set a speed, and the trans won't upshift to OD [fourth] even with very light throttle. And when decelerating down through this speed you will be shifted back out of OD into third. This is what I've been doing manually with the OD button. Now it is automatic.



And it allows you to adjust when the TC will unlock when accelerating based on throttle pedal position. I set mine at about 3/4 throttle.



For engine braking, once the TC has locked, it will keep it locked for deceleration, and as it decelerates down through your preset 3-4 upshift point, it will automatically downshift from 4-locked to 3-locked. If you have an exhaust brake installed, this would automatically give you much better braking.



A flip of a toggle switch will restore the trans to normal stock functions. [you wouldn't want it to automatically downshift in a turn if the road was slippery]



With a DTT valve body, you can manually select 2nd gear locked, this is great for even more braking or for pulling at slow speed, it will keep the trans temps down.



So far I like the box, maybe next week I can get the E-brake installed too.



Greg L

 

[tmacc]

Hello Bill,

Do you have a recommended max HP for a 47re w/ 89% TC and master upgrade kit? Everytime I turn around your sending a new and improved part to add to the upgrade kit. I'm going to have to draw the line at the cryogenic treated stuff thought. I better get this stuff installed before something else shows up. LOL

Might have to put the Smart Controler on the list. "What? No, honey that's not a new gagget for the truck. It's a replacement part. You know, just normal maintenance. "



Tom