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Toyo vs. Nitto
- Thread starter Coolslice
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Coolslice,
DUDE!!!
I just noticed that you are from Kentucky. Lift tha bad boy 14 inches and install some 40 inch boggers on it. Get a tst box and spin those suckers in the mud!!
DUDE!!!
I just noticed that you are from Kentucky. Lift tha bad boy 14 inches and install some 40 inch boggers on it. Get a tst box and spin those suckers in the mud!!
You're an idiot Boardman lol
I prefer Jackass!!! 
Greg Boardman said:
I've got the TST already! I can't do the lift thing though, when you work in real estate you can't have a rig like that. What would I do if I have to show property to a couple of midgets who are affraid of heights?? I guess I could install a rope ladder on the passenger side. :-laf
SLorenzen said:
I work for a dodge dealer, and Myself, a Service writer, and 2 of our lot trucks(plow trucks) have the Nittos in that size.
The main motivation was price, we paid $128 apiece for them.
I have 6-7K miles on mine, with no noticable wear yet. I think they give great wet and dry tractions, and are decent in the snow. They suck in the mud though. I use mine to tow my offroad vehicle, no real problems towing.
I am concerned about tread wear, after reading this thread. I am rotating them when I change my oil tomorrow though.
Edit=I am talking about the 295/7516 size.
Last edited by a moderator:
Coolslice,
That was a good one - about the midgets...
he he he. :-laf
You're funny. Don't let Boardman smack talk ya' just because you don't live in the California desert.
To answer your question about suspension and Death Wobble:
Since some trucks DW right off the showroom floor, the following isn't true in all cases, but in general, we've found that there's often a distinct formula for Death Wobble.
Coil spacers or red "D-25" coils + twin tube shocks + "D" rated BFG ATKO's on 4. 5" backspace wheels = Death Wobble
Coil spacers and thin-wire, low coil-count springs (D-25), for many reasons can't properly control lateral deflection. Conventional twin-tube style shocks cavitate, so they don't provide consistant damping and positive control throughout their stroke. Weird harmonics develop in wimpy "D" rated sidewalls, no matter what load rating the tire has. Wheels that leverage the tire outboard of the bearing centerline exaggerate bump-steer and road wander. The Dodge truck's five-link design literally moves the axle in a circle as the suspension cycles, so if one element is out of whack, an uncontrollable gyration ensues - Death Wobble.
KORE doesn't use coil spacers because they can't flex about properly like a full-length coil.
KORE doesn't use cheap coil springs.
In order to save money on materials, the "D-25" coils the other guys make use very thin bar diameter and few coils. These coils will only cycle 2-3 inches of travel before taking a "set. " When the coil takes a set it loses strength and your truck loses height and wheel travel. In general the number of coils controls stiffness and the bar diameter controls resiliency. Our coils are engineering masterpieces because they are designed to cycle infinitely and remain soft without taking a set and losing resiliency. This is because the set height of our coils corresponds with our solid height - which is a compression level far below what your truck's geometry will permit. The company that makes the red coils banks on that fact that most consumers will never cycle more than a couple of inches of wheel travel, so they build wimpy springs that cost very little to produce. The backbone of our systems is our coil springs. Shipping weight on KORE regular diesel coils is 64 lbs. - about twice the material and much more than twice the cost to produce relative to "D-25" coils. We also produce a Heavy Duty Diesel coil for diesel trucks with heavy winch bumpers. They weigh somewhere around 72 lbs. a pair - so they can be soft, resilient and last forever - even if you're running a winch bumper that weighs 300 lbs.
Most importantly, they cycle the way Dodge designed coils to cycle - they just cycle more travel, are more progressive, and will last longer than stock Dodge coils ever could.
KORE doesn't use cheap twin-tube shocks - so our shocks can't cavitate. There are lots of factors that cause cavitation, but in a twin-tube shock it's when air flows through the piston instead of pure hydraulic fluid. Air doesn't damp; fluid damps - so cavitating shocks can't control springs like they're supposed to. Cavitating shocks permit springs to move about on their own program - the Death Wobble program. Our shocks are all mono-tube shocks. Even our non-remote reservoir Bilstein 5100 Series shocks have an internal piston that keeps nitrogen separated from the hydraulic fluid - to eliminate cavitation and provide consistent, perfect damping bump after bump.
KORE doesn't sell "D" rated tires for HD Dodge trucks. We sell stout, "E" rated tires that are made specifically for Heavy Duty pickup applications. DC equipped your truck from the factory with "E" rated tires for a lot of reasons. We think those are good reasons, so that's what we sell.
KORE doesn't sell wheels that are made to fit lots of different trucks. KORE sells wheels that are made exactly for your truck. The basic wheel aftermarket manufacturers sell for trucks with "lift kits" comes with 4. 5" of backspacing. Third Gen. OE Dodge wheels have almost 6. 5" of backspace! Using the wrong wheel puts improperly-aligned loads on your suspension, wheel bearings and steering components. The best thing about the correct wheel is that it permits a larger tire without rubbing issues in the front fenderwell while turning. An added benefit of the KORE wheel is that it's hubcentric for the Dodge - just like OE.
As for Death wobble with KORE suspension, we've never seen any that can be traced to the installation of our product.
Twice we've had ten-year-old 2nd Gen. trucks get Death Wobble after installing our products and both times it was traced to rotten control arm bushings. Stock control arm bushings are designed to be "captured," meaning the sleeves don't rotate in the flanges, so the rubber twists. While installing KORE coil springs, if you've got an older truck and don't loosen all your control arm mounting bolts, then tighten them after the weight of the truck is back on the wheels, you can rupture an already rotten bushing as the suspension cycles. This step is reflected in the latest version of our instructions.
Due to their design, this won't be a factor with KORE control arms.
Have a great weekend.
Kent
That was a good one - about the midgets...
he he he. :-laf
You're funny. Don't let Boardman smack talk ya' just because you don't live in the California desert.
To answer your question about suspension and Death Wobble:
Since some trucks DW right off the showroom floor, the following isn't true in all cases, but in general, we've found that there's often a distinct formula for Death Wobble.
Coil spacers or red "D-25" coils + twin tube shocks + "D" rated BFG ATKO's on 4. 5" backspace wheels = Death Wobble
Coil spacers and thin-wire, low coil-count springs (D-25), for many reasons can't properly control lateral deflection. Conventional twin-tube style shocks cavitate, so they don't provide consistant damping and positive control throughout their stroke. Weird harmonics develop in wimpy "D" rated sidewalls, no matter what load rating the tire has. Wheels that leverage the tire outboard of the bearing centerline exaggerate bump-steer and road wander. The Dodge truck's five-link design literally moves the axle in a circle as the suspension cycles, so if one element is out of whack, an uncontrollable gyration ensues - Death Wobble.
KORE doesn't use coil spacers because they can't flex about properly like a full-length coil.
KORE doesn't use cheap coil springs.
In order to save money on materials, the "D-25" coils the other guys make use very thin bar diameter and few coils. These coils will only cycle 2-3 inches of travel before taking a "set. " When the coil takes a set it loses strength and your truck loses height and wheel travel. In general the number of coils controls stiffness and the bar diameter controls resiliency. Our coils are engineering masterpieces because they are designed to cycle infinitely and remain soft without taking a set and losing resiliency. This is because the set height of our coils corresponds with our solid height - which is a compression level far below what your truck's geometry will permit. The company that makes the red coils banks on that fact that most consumers will never cycle more than a couple of inches of wheel travel, so they build wimpy springs that cost very little to produce. The backbone of our systems is our coil springs. Shipping weight on KORE regular diesel coils is 64 lbs. - about twice the material and much more than twice the cost to produce relative to "D-25" coils. We also produce a Heavy Duty Diesel coil for diesel trucks with heavy winch bumpers. They weigh somewhere around 72 lbs. a pair - so they can be soft, resilient and last forever - even if you're running a winch bumper that weighs 300 lbs.
Most importantly, they cycle the way Dodge designed coils to cycle - they just cycle more travel, are more progressive, and will last longer than stock Dodge coils ever could.
KORE doesn't use cheap twin-tube shocks - so our shocks can't cavitate. There are lots of factors that cause cavitation, but in a twin-tube shock it's when air flows through the piston instead of pure hydraulic fluid. Air doesn't damp; fluid damps - so cavitating shocks can't control springs like they're supposed to. Cavitating shocks permit springs to move about on their own program - the Death Wobble program. Our shocks are all mono-tube shocks. Even our non-remote reservoir Bilstein 5100 Series shocks have an internal piston that keeps nitrogen separated from the hydraulic fluid - to eliminate cavitation and provide consistent, perfect damping bump after bump.
KORE doesn't sell "D" rated tires for HD Dodge trucks. We sell stout, "E" rated tires that are made specifically for Heavy Duty pickup applications. DC equipped your truck from the factory with "E" rated tires for a lot of reasons. We think those are good reasons, so that's what we sell.
KORE doesn't sell wheels that are made to fit lots of different trucks. KORE sells wheels that are made exactly for your truck. The basic wheel aftermarket manufacturers sell for trucks with "lift kits" comes with 4. 5" of backspacing. Third Gen. OE Dodge wheels have almost 6. 5" of backspace! Using the wrong wheel puts improperly-aligned loads on your suspension, wheel bearings and steering components. The best thing about the correct wheel is that it permits a larger tire without rubbing issues in the front fenderwell while turning. An added benefit of the KORE wheel is that it's hubcentric for the Dodge - just like OE.
As for Death wobble with KORE suspension, we've never seen any that can be traced to the installation of our product.
Twice we've had ten-year-old 2nd Gen. trucks get Death Wobble after installing our products and both times it was traced to rotten control arm bushings. Stock control arm bushings are designed to be "captured," meaning the sleeves don't rotate in the flanges, so the rubber twists. While installing KORE coil springs, if you've got an older truck and don't loosen all your control arm mounting bolts, then tighten them after the weight of the truck is back on the wheels, you can rupture an already rotten bushing as the suspension cycles. This step is reflected in the latest version of our instructions.
Due to their design, this won't be a factor with KORE control arms.
Have a great weekend.
Kent
Wow! I feel like such a loser now after reading that. And to think I have been riding around on D rated 35" tires and antiquated SkyJacker lifted for the last 2 years without a single problem. Sigh...
Geeze... enough with the bickering guys.
I feel compelled to chime in on this one as I have gone though and discovered for myself a lot of what Kent is talking about with regard to the "Correct" wheels and E rated tires. Here's a thread I put up a few weeks ago after I discovered the the difference the "Correct" wheel and tire combination can make.
https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124037
The only thing I still struggle with is the caster angle vs. pinion angle after changing the geometry of the front end from stock. I may have an odd case with my particular truck but I currently have the caster set more negative than it ever was so I don't have the front driveshaft vibration. This killed me with the other tire wheel combinations I had because the truck steered like crap. Since I put the new E rated tires on. My steering woes have nearly gone away. I'm still working on the caster/pinion angle thing to make it even better. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated though.
Erik
https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124037
The only thing I still struggle with is the caster angle vs. pinion angle after changing the geometry of the front end from stock. I may have an odd case with my particular truck but I currently have the caster set more negative than it ever was so I don't have the front driveshaft vibration. This killed me with the other tire wheel combinations I had because the truck steered like crap. Since I put the new E rated tires on. My steering woes have nearly gone away. I'm still working on the caster/pinion angle thing to make it even better. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated though.
Erik
pwerwagn
TDR MEMBER
Most people (not all) want to argue about how great their D's work, and how they are happy, etc. They will argue, without even knowing what the E and D mean. Most people (not all) wonder why a larger D will support as much if not more than a small E.
Volume of air in a tire supports the weight, not the psi. That is why a bigger tire can usually support more.
The actual load carrying capacity of a tire (as most people think of it) is not the E or the D, it is the load Index. The load index is a number (usually in the 118-125 range for our trucks). This number corrlelates to a weight (125=3690lbs, 124=3580 etc). This is the VERTICAL weight that a tire can support. The load range has nothing to do with it (well some, but it is irrelevant for our conversation).
The load range is the Horizontal support. The letters (C,D,E) all correspond to a Ply Rating (6,8,10, respectively). This is not the actual ply rating of new tires, but an equivalent of the ratings of the older Bias tires. The ply rating/Load range contributes to stability. Side to side sway, in other words.
So, a load range E tire will make your truck steer better (sometimes noticeably). It can potentially make the ride harsher, but usually un-noticeable.
--Jeff
Volume of air in a tire supports the weight, not the psi. That is why a bigger tire can usually support more.
The actual load carrying capacity of a tire (as most people think of it) is not the E or the D, it is the load Index. The load index is a number (usually in the 118-125 range for our trucks). This number corrlelates to a weight (125=3690lbs, 124=3580 etc). This is the VERTICAL weight that a tire can support. The load range has nothing to do with it (well some, but it is irrelevant for our conversation).
The load range is the Horizontal support. The letters (C,D,E) all correspond to a Ply Rating (6,8,10, respectively). This is not the actual ply rating of new tires, but an equivalent of the ratings of the older Bias tires. The ply rating/Load range contributes to stability. Side to side sway, in other words.
So, a load range E tire will make your truck steer better (sometimes noticeably). It can potentially make the ride harsher, but usually un-noticeable.
--Jeff
I know I was clueless before reading that lol! Not!
Luke seems to be spending an aweful lot of time on this thread for having absolutely nothing intelligent to add to it.
Just a little side note here guys,
I just got done installing a set of the Toyo MT in a 37/13. 50/17 E size. The ride is better than the goodyear 37/12. 50's that were on there. The amazing thing with a tire that size was the the most weight we needed was 4. 5 oz's and the least was 1. 5'oz's. Now it is not unheard that Kroeker and I are buddies, He has been ranting about how great these Toyo's are for about a year. I just kinda shrug it off because, like most of you, I want to find out for myself. Maybe some day I will just listen to him and believe what he says. Naaaahhhhh! I like being a rockhead!!! I guess all I can say is that I was very impressed.
Greg
I just got done installing a set of the Toyo MT in a 37/13. 50/17 E size. The ride is better than the goodyear 37/12. 50's that were on there. The amazing thing with a tire that size was the the most weight we needed was 4. 5 oz's and the least was 1. 5'oz's. Now it is not unheard that Kroeker and I are buddies, He has been ranting about how great these Toyo's are for about a year. I just kinda shrug it off because, like most of you, I want to find out for myself. Maybe some day I will just listen to him and believe what he says. Naaaahhhhh! I like being a rockhead!!!
I guess all I can say is that I was very impressed. Greg
What size are you looking for Matt?
Well if I had my pick it would be a 33 x 11. 50 17, 18 or even 20.
I hate my OE wheels and want the KORE wheel but 35" won't do for towing with 3. 73's and the auto trans. I also do allot of mountain driving at 50-55 mph unloaded and am able to keep OD locked at those speeds which gives me 19. 5 mpg. Thats with the 285's I have and they are 32. 8"
I hate my OE wheels and want the KORE wheel but 35" won't do for towing with 3. 73's and the auto trans. I also do allot of mountain driving at 50-55 mph unloaded and am able to keep OD locked at those speeds which gives me 19. 5 mpg. Thats with the 285's I have and they are 32. 8"
IF you go to www.toyo.com and look at the Off road or light truck tires, check out the Open Country AT. There are a ton of sizes and I am sure you could find one you liked.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
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What Makes Us Tick?
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