Transfer Flow Strategies...

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Okay, here's my latest larcenous idea. With fuel prices skyrocketing, the Transfer Flow (or similar) fuel tank is beginning to make more sense to me. The stations closest to my home, here in Georgia, are selling fuel for about $1. 59, with some places selling it as high as $1. 80. 45 miles north of the city, stations are selling fuel in the range of $1. 45, and home heating out or "red fuel" can be purchased for $120, plus county tax.

The fine for running "red fuel" in anything over-the-road (not farm machinery) is now $10,000 in the state of Georgia. That's enough to give you pause, for sure... But, I'm wondering, why any cop would EVER think to look in a person's fuel tank. The DOT regularly checks (at weigh stations) truckers for fuel violations, I'm sure, but I can't imagine an instance in which you'd be checked, during a routine traffic violation stop (or, whatever).

A savings of . 50 cents a gallon on fuel costs (that's what it is NOW) would add up in a hurry -- $45 for each fill up of a Transfer Flow 90 gallon tank. I put about 20,000 miles per year on my truck. Figuring my average of 17 mpg, that'd represent a savings of about $600 per year. The tank would pay for itself during the first year.

Anybody else have similar "evil" thoughts?? #ad
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97 2500 4x4, club cab, auto, 3. 54 limited slip, JRE 4" exhaust, Dr. Performance Fuel system (370 HP), "Twister Turbo," Geno's guages -- Boost, EGT, transmission & Rear -- MAG Hytec covers, SunCoast Converter/Transgo shift kit, Brite Box, tons o'chrome under hood, Prime Loc, EZ Drain, Seat covers, wood dash, Rancho Suspension, Warn M12000 Winch on Warn Brush Guard, Warn driving and fog lights, Hella twin back up lights, 285/75/R16 B. F. G. ATs on Mickey Thompson "Classic" rims; Linex bed liner, BD exhaust brake.

 

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If you think they won't, Don't come very far Southwest (Alabama, Lousiana, Texas). The DPS (Department of Public Safety Officers)will do it in a heart beat here in Texas. My buddie owns several Refrigerated (sp) reefers and otr trucks. He also has a extra tank in his truck to fuel up the units when they are in the yard before they leave out on trips. He also occassionally will drop some in his Ram. I told him to be careful after reading about this subject last winter on the forums. Lo and behold back in April of this year he was stopped for a taillight out on a trailer he was pulling and they asked if they could pull a fuel sample. He told them the tank in his bed has red fuel in it. He then asked what if he did not agree, they said that they would get a search warrant. He agreed and they pulled some from his tank and it was clean. They then wanted to see a tax certificate for buying the red fuel. He explained his use and they let him proceed, but made it very clear that if his tank had been red, they would have impounded his truck. Not sure what authority or cause they had to begin the search, but I would be careful.



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92 Ext. Cab, Auto trans. , 3. 54 Non-LS, Isspro Tach and Pyro (pre-turbo), 210,000+ miles, straight pipe,old and abused but still running strong!!!!

 

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Shrimpy,

Thanks for the reply. Here's my question, though. I thought that the Transfer Flow tank installation included a way to draw down fuel from either your stock (OEM) tank, or the Transfer Flow tank -- your choice. I have no knowledge of how these things actually work. My thought was that if the tanks could be managed separately you could run the "red fuel" in your farm equipment and the regular, "legal" fuel in your truck. In other words, you could install the diamond plate, Transfer Flow bed tank, then simply install a $20. 00 hand pump on the top of the tank and you'd be all set to go. There are tons of farmers in the Atlanta area who are buying red fuel, legitimately, for their farm machinery. They all have big tanks (with hand pumps) on the backs of their trucks. If the tank in question was a Transfer Flow, they could switch over to the truck's use of the red fuel when they wanted to, then back to the legal fuel if they were unlucky enough to be pulled over. By the time the cop got to them, they'd have been sitting alongside the road long enough for the electronic switch-over to have taken place, and the cop could draw "fuel samples" forever and not be able to prove a damned thing. All he could determine, for sure, is that there was red fuel in the auxiliary tank, and legal fuel in the truck's regular, factory fuel tank. That's not a hanging offense -- even in "shoot first, and ask questions later," Georgia. #ad
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Hey sasquatch>
I have thought of this also in fact I thought what if you pulled a trailer with a big tank in it. I mean those lines from the trialer to the truck could be hydraulic lines right. I live in Atlanta and I dont think they check to much here but I am from rural Louisiana and I know for sure they check alot down there. If the switch on your truck to change tanks was inconspicous and the lines were hard to follow I doubt they would catch you. The reason I was thinking about a trailer was I want a truck camper and it would be nice to have maybe 200 plus gallons to pull without having to put all that weight on my axles. You could expedition it to California and back and never get raped on fuel prices. Well you would need more than 200 gallons for that but you get my idea. It would be sweet to be able to burn $1. 20 a gallon fuel for a whole trip and pass up those 2. 00 a gallon places.
If they caught you though it would be **** to pay!

 

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Sasquatch, I believe you are correct about how the Transfer flow works. I don't know if they are completely seperate lines from each tank or not. You would have to run some sort of seperate fuel pump from the Transfer flow to have enough pressure. The problem as i see it is that just a little bit of the red fuel goes a LONG WAY. If you had a way to keep the fuel completely seperate this may be possible. Or if you could hide the filler tube on the tank in the bed, say inside the tool box lid, it would raise much less suspision (sp).

It's a great way to save on fuel cost but the price of getting caught is to much for me. And if you burn alot of miles up I would think this increases you chance of getting caught by being on the major roadways more often.


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92 Ext. Cab, Auto trans. , 3. 54 Non-LS, Isspro Tach and Pyro (pre-turbo), 210,000+ miles, straight pipe,old and abused but still running strong!!!!

 

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JP,

I live in Atlanta, too. I just got off the phone with the sales folks at American Toolbox Company. The toolbox/tank was reviewed by Rob Spalding on page 121 of the most recent issue.

The American rep told me that, unlike "Transfer Flow," their tank is a "true auxiliary," which means that it shares the existing fuel gauge/sending unit (oh, well, can't have everything!) of the OEM tank, but does not pump fuel into the factory tank, first, which is what the Transfer Flow system does.

With Trans/Flow's tank you have to use an expensive electronic fuel module which calculates flow rates and controls everything about the fuel pumping/transfer process. If the computer stuff goes haywire (and you're in the middle of nowhere) you've got all that fuel on-board but no way to access it. Talk about a nightmare! American's tank would give you access to the fuel, even if the wonderful Dodge sending unit went south on you. Plus, the American unit allows you to switch over, whenever you want, between the two fuel tanks. Again, as far as I'm concerned, this would defeat the cop every time. Even if he found the lines (fuel) leading to your truck's fuel pump, he'd have to prove that you were, in fact, burning red fuel. All you'd have to say is that you wanted to allow for the (some day) use of the tank as an auxiliary truck fuel system, which is why you had the tank outfitted with fuel lines... Just in case. Again, suspicion is one thing, proof is an entirely different matter. The tank is expensive, however. It costs about $1500, plus shipping -- a "minor detail," that was overlooked by Rob in his review! #ad

 

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Gentlemen? I think if you check the tech. specs. on the red fuel you will find that it will also discolor your exhaust pipe. Which will be pretty hard to hide. I believe it works on the black light principal. Pete

 

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The dead givaway is the diesel tank in the back with pump. They know everyone with these uses red for their eqipment and probably can't resist using a little in their truck now and then. Has anyone here actually been checked in a personal vehicle (diesel car, PU, motorhome)that is not used commercially? We all know of someone else that has but I would like to here from someone with first hand experience.

Since I started driving diesels my house seems to use more oil to heat #ad


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1972 Chinook class C with 96/215 5spd, 4/5" exh, 4"BD, MagHytec, 85gal fuel, K&N, AutoMeter, www.fostertruck.com/cummins

[This message has been edited by LarryB (edited 10-12-2000). ]

 

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LarryB > Good point. If you have that big pump they know you have off road diesel. That gives my trailer tank idea an advantage. I have an old 71 dodge that the tank rusted out of and I got tired of looking for a tank so I just slapped a plastic 55 drum in the back and ran a line from it. Noone even know its my gas tank People always ask what I have it that drum.

How about this for an idea; Have a false tank where your spout is that holds about 2 gallons of diesel then have your reg tank and one of those add on tanks under your truck and mount your tire on the front. Then you just need a TOP SECRET place to put in the fuel. Keep reg diesel in the little false tank and the good stuff in the other one and aux.

Man I cant keep talking like this I am getting so excited about beating uncle sam out of a dollar or two that I might just go rob a bank.

 

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Jponder

!!!BINGO!!! Winner, winner!

Maybe a real filler neck low in the bed with a rag thrown over it. Mmmmm, sounds familiar #ad


[This message has been edited by LarryB (edited 10-12-2000). ]

 

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NICE!!!! I figured someone had already been there. Hey how about some ideas for me on my idle up post in 24Valve
thanks
John

 

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If your idea with the transfer flow would catch on it would only be a matter of time the red fuel would be cut out and the farmers would have to pay retail like the otr rigs and that would raise havoc with out food bill.

Pay your fair share.

 

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Happy Camper,

I gotta repost your immortal words... (chuckling).

"If your idea with the transfer flow would catch on it would only be a matter of time the red fuel would be cut out and the farmers would have to pay retail like the otr rigs and that would raise havoc with out food bill. Pay your fair share. "

I'm guessing you're a Gore supporter... ?

Farmers get huge subsidies and, increasingly, these taxpayer-funded "discounts" go to underwriting profit margins for corporations; more and more farms are now huge, corporate-owned collectives.

It's time these folks paid THEIR "fair share," just like the rest of us. I'm a carpenter (and have been for twenty years) who's made his living doing residential remodeling and building the occasional "spec" house. Every so often (too damned often) the nation endures a recession and we (home builders/shelter providers) take it in the chops.

Politicians do lots of hand-wringing when this happens, but nobody says, "Hey, it's time to open up the U. S. Treasury and send lots o' checks to all these struggling people, suffering, now, with this depressed housing market!" Every time it rains too much, the wind blows too hard, or it doesn't rain enough the farmers get some kinda "Emergency relief," bail out. In case you didn't know this, that's funded with our money (taxpayer dollars).

Well, sorry, good buddy: I've paid my "fair share" over the years, and then some. We all have. It's time to end farm subsidies -- of all kinds. If you can't make it growing tobacco -- get the **** out of the business. Ditto cotton, soy beans, whatever. The government has no business with providing "price supports," or controlling/regulating the cost of food staples.

It shouldn't be that way in a free country. Food is important, for sure. We can't live without it, but so is shelter. Building homes is JUST as friggin' important as growing crops. If you doubt it, grab a Budweiser, go outside and sit on a stump for an hour or so in the middle of January. Oh, yeah, and wear your furry Bunny Slippers -- it might be a little nippy out there...

Excuse the rant, folks. This "pay your fair share" stuff pushes my buttons! #ad
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No such thing as a fair share when it comes to taxes.

 

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Stick FAIR SHARE up blank,bleep ,blip!
Add up all your taxes and permit fees and license fees and whats left? About 20% percent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you say "Running shine? Revenuers? Black market fuel is on the horizon! Keeep it down fellas, the enemy is watching.

Also, any fact to that tailpipe stained thing?
Don't our trucks pump fuel back to the tank all the time?
Gene

 

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Delco makes a solenoid valve that switches both the feed and return lines, and the gauge lead. About 75$ at your local autoparts

 

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How about a big locking tool box with the extra tank inside, out of sight and no reason to look for lines at all and as far as the fuel return goes, a valve that incorporates both lines for both tanks would do that. We pay so high a tax on everything we do that most of us feel we need to do what we can to lessen the burden. Its unfortunate that our government is so greedy that it turns normally law abiding citizens into people that try to circumvent the law which is every one who has not been totally truthful on tax returns. Whats truthful? ask slick Willie

 

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Sasquatch,first of all let me say I'm a farmer so you'll know where I'm coming from. There are only a handful of crops that recieve subsidies,no fruits or vegtables recieve them. Washington apple growers have voted down subsidies twice,mainly because we're independent folks and don't want the government involed. Unsubsidized American farmers are increasingly competing with crops grown in other countries that give subsidies. That,with free trade,cheap labor and the lack of regulations in other countries puts them at an unfair advantage. I'll bet their not paying road tax on their fuel either. Why should farmers pay road tax if their rigs don't use the roads?The tax money is supposed to go for roads,if it all does the roads don't show it. How would you like it if you had to compete with constuction crews based in Mexico(maybe you are?). End of rant.


The transfer tank idea is great and works,but the feds will catch on,lets not advertize it too much. They can scrape the tailpipe soot and detect the red,but I doubt if they will do it unless they suspect that you're a major violator such as an OTR truck. If you realy are a farmer you could say that the truck is mainly used on the farm off road hence the residue. It might work, but not if you're pulling a TT or have a camper on. The only time I've heard of people getting caught out west is at truck scales,I don't think you can legally be pulled over just for a fuel test. It would be like them getting a search warrent for your home so they could look at the "other"copy of your 1040.

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95' 25004X4,AT,Driftwood,Banks,Warn fender flairs and running boards(Play truck)95 3500,5 speed,driftwood,Banks&phscotty,34,000 GCVW apple and tractor hauler(work truck)

 

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MGM,

I'm really dubious about the stained tail pipe rumor. I don't know if they could get away with that, by design, anyway. There are too many legal uses for red fuel in farm machinery, school busses, fire engines, etc. If the fuel stains the tail pipe, it'd (it seems to me) stain the rear quarter panels of whatever machinery it was employed in. I can't imagine that too many folks would appreciate that. Also, it's hard to believe a chemical dye would survive the intense heat of the combustion process and then travel down the length of the exhaust, pass through the cat, and still stain the pipe... Doesn't sound too believable to me.

 

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illflem:

First of all, what I said stands. It's no reflection on you, in particular, (GOD BLESS FARMERS!) but it's an established fact that farm subsidies cost the government billions each year. Farmers are routinely bailed out after "natural disasters. " Sorry, but that's just the fact of the matter. It must vary, state by state, but in Georgia, farmers (this year, it's a drought) are eligible for super low interest, guaranteed loans and other benefits each time the governor declares the state a "disaster area" and applies for government assistance. Farm subsidies started back in the '30s, under FDR's reign, and have grown in scope with each passing Congressional session.

I have to compete with Mexicans every day of my life. Our area of the country (unlike Oregon/Washington) is flooded with cheap Mexican labor. They live, three families to a one bedroom apartment, like cockroaches. They undercut my labor rates, work without benefit of (or paying attention to) insurance requirements, disregard OSHA regs, don't carry workman's compensation insurance (or liability, either) and don't pay any federal income taxes. They send every cent they make (typically) back home to Mexico by money order. I realize that this is just a fact of life, nowadays. I'm not asking the federal government to round up the Mexicans and herd 'em into busses. They're here; we're doing the best we can to make a living, working alongside them. Most of the Mexicans I've seen (we use 'em occasionally) are honest, hard-working, and devout people. I have no problem with them.

All I know is that there are industries which have, historically, garnered the interest and support of politicians; homebuilders (independent cusses, all) have never members of the select, "chosen" few who politicians pay attention to -- we don't have any friggin' lobbies, that's the main problem... Not feeling sorry for myself (much, anyway... ) but that's just the way it is.

It's not like I'm aiming for farmers on the interstate roadsides, then stamping tractor silhouettes on side of my truck fuselage! (laughing my *** off, here. . ) I still believe in "live and let live. " I take your point about farmers using the red fuel on their places and, therefore, not having to pay road taxes. But, the difference in price is more than just road taxes; there are all sorts of other taxes that are waived, too. There are 22 local and federal taxes on every gallon of fuel we buy. Road taxes comprise a percentage, but are not ALL of the taxes paid.

Taxes comprise the highest portion of the materials I buy, too. Since most of what I buy is trucked (lumber, etc. ) I'm paying for all the road taxes (in the form of higher prices on materials) anyway. Corporations don't pay any taxes; they all get passed along to the consumer, in the end. That's what I find so annoying about the populist politicians (like Albert) who promote the nonsense about sticking it to those "big, evil, greedy corporations. " Make THEM pay their fair share! "End corporate welfare," the politicians love to shout on the stump. Meanwhile, the corporations simply collect the higher taxes they are required to pay from us poor schmucks at the checkout line. We pay those higher taxes; corporations simply pass the taxes (a cost of doing business) along; they collect taxes for the government, that's all...

End of rant. For real, this time!! #ad


[This message has been edited by Sasquatch (edited 10-13-2000). ]