Truck "Making" Oil

[AH64ID]

To add to the confusion when Ram combined the diesel supplement and the owners manual they only left the method for checking the gas engine oil level… 5 minutes after shutdown not the 30 minutes for the 6.7 that was in the diesel supplement. I’ll also do what @Timd32 did and post it up.

Im also going to be due for a change soon, so maybe I’ll measure how much oil comes out after the initial 5 minutes. We can then extrapolate that to level on the dipstick.

This is after sitting overnight. 1st pull, and 12 quarts at the change. 9,978 miles/306 hours/790 gallons fuel/12 regens on the oil. I don’t think I’m making any oil.

confused Why are you telling me we are over filling with oil When the book from dodge tells me three gallons is the proper amount ? When I drain one quart one quart goes into filter and eleven into the sump. why is that over filling I also asked whatdoes the air filter have to do with making oil ????

The book tells you the system capacity is 3 gallons, not the drain and fill amount is 3 gallons. It should take right at 3 gallons if it’s drained long enough, but sometimes it takes a little less. It should never take less than 11 1/2 quarts to get to the top of the safe zone.

Since you brought up prefilling the filter I’ll throw out a Caution. Only prefill from the outside holes. When you prefill thru the middle hole that oil goes thru the system unfiltered and virgin oil is not as clean as you would think, they expect it to be filtered before being used.

The air filter is being discussed because the 19+ trucks are more sensitive to air filters and will preform more regens on some filters. Excessive regens can push fuel into the oil causing its level to rise.

 

[AH64ID]

I’ll upload pics later, but so far there is about a 1/2 quart difference in the level at 5 minutes and 30 minutes. Also, the single pull method does not work at those time intervals, you just pull it, clean it, and then check the level.

 

[BigPapa]

Also, the single pull method does not work at those time intervals.

Why is that? Just asking.

 

[AH64ID]

Why is that?

There isn’t a definitive oil line. There is oil well above the plastic end from operation. Even after 30 minutes it hasn’t drained down to the level of oil in the pan.

 

[Timd32]

In fairness I should not say mines making anything when it was never drained and filled and checked to a known level then monitored, that was where the OP was I think with the service folks.

I will have to gather the stuff and figure out a good time to change the oil.

 

[AH64ID]

Alright, here is what I have found. There is a difference in level from 5 minutes, 30 minutes, 4 hours, and overnight. The difference isn’t huge, unless you use the shorter intervals to fill the pan to the full mark. 30 minutes and 4 hours are nearly identical with the contraction from cooling being absorbed by additional draining.

As noted above I had to clean and recheck after 5 and 30 minutes. At 4 hours the level was discernible, but not as clear as the overnight sit.

5 minutes. Approx 1 1/4 quart lower than sitting overnight.

30 minutes. Approx 1/2 quart lower than sitting overnight.

4 hours. Approx 1/3 quart lower than sitting overnight.

Overnight.

Bottom line is that they are all in the safe zone, but I wouldn’t add oil based on anything outside of overnight unless it was below the add line and then I would only add what was needed to get it to between add and S in safe.

 

[Turbo Terry]

Good study thanks John. So for me start low on the oil level check it as needed and add as required

 

[Turbo Terry]

But to just pull the plug and replug and dump 3 gallons is a mistake it’s almost always an over fill. Not good

 

[AH64ID]

But to just pull the plug and replug and dump 3 gallons is a mistake it’s almost always an over fill. Not good

Overfilling is bad, but this method has always worked for me. So to say it’s almost always going to overfill us wrong, imho.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I check ALL my engines COLD. Oh and on LEVEL ground. Fact is the pan does not Completely drain. 12 quarts you are overfill plain snd simple.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Another question, how many times are you pulling your dipstick?

If it's been siting over night, pull it and look at it, that's where it is. If you pull it, wipe it off, stick it back in, and pull it again, you've pulled oil into the tube and that will skew your results.

YEP!!!

 

[Cummins12V98]

But to just pull the plug and replug and dump 3 gallons is a mistake it’s almost always an over fill. Not good

100% agree! Dealers pull the plug and jamb it back in quickly. THAT is a guarantee to be way over full.

 

[AH64ID]

I check ALL my engines COLD. Oh and on LEVEL ground. Fact is the pan does not Completely drain. 12 quarts you are overfill plain snd simple.

I’ve never had that issue, plain and simple. Multiple motors and many oil changes.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I’ve never had that issue, plain and simple. Multiple motors and many oil changes.

Don't doubt you one bit. "I" like starting at "FULL" so It's a starting point plain and simple. Kinda like "I" like to change ALL my transmission fluid.

 

[crispyboy]

My 2009 truck takes 3 gallons at every oil change which brings it up to the top of the "safe" mark. I do overnight oil drains.

 

[Pizzamaker991]

An update regarding the regen frequency after having reinstalled the factory air box and filter...NO CHANGE still going into regen just as often as when the cai was installed. I have been tracking the regens, (see pic) what is highlighted in grey is after the oem air box was put back on. So I don't think the cai was causing my issues. Also the oil level is up about 1/2" since the dealer changed the oil on July 6th at 37,082

 

[Cummins12V98]

My 2009 truck takes 3 gallons at every oil change which brings it up to the top of the "safe" mark. I do overnight oil drains.

I wonder if your pan has less of an upward indention?

 

[AH64ID]

An update regarding the regen frequency after having reinstalled the factory air box and filter...NO CHANGE still going into regen just as often as when the cai was installed. I have been tracking the regens, (see pic) what is highlighted in grey is after the oem air box was put back on. So I don't think the cai was causing my issues. Also the oil level is up about 1/2" since the dealer changed the oil on July 6th at 37,082

View attachment 137966

That’s unfortunate.

What’s your next move?

I wonder if your pan has less of an upward indention?

He gets the same results I’ve always gotten so it’s highly unlikely there is a pan difference.

 

[PRS]

It's apparent he does his oil change in a consistent manner. It's also apparent that he has fuel dilution and frequent regens. At this point I would troubleshoot for a P2459 regens too frequent. That involves ensuring the charge air side is leak free and the EGR system is operating as designed and is clean. He has enough data since re-installing the OEM CAI to drag the dealer back into the process of finding what the problem is. Unfortunately, there are many folks having frequent regens with no quick resolution in sight. Many have found leaks in the charge air system so that would be a place to start. There is a flexible coupler below and in front of the turbo that has a wire loom running near it that can rub on the coupler. Some have found that coupler with a hole worn in it. Mine was rubbing but not through. Others have found clamps loose on the hoses going to the intercooler(charge air cooler). Good places to start.
Drag the dealer back into it. If they refuse, contact Ram through @RamCares or some other avenue.
Good luck!

 

[Pizzamaker991]

It's apparent he does his oil change in a consistent manner. It's also apparent that he has fuel dilution and frequent regens. At this point I would troubleshoot for a P2459 regens too frequent. That involves ensuring the charge air side is leak free and the EGR system is operating as designed and is clean. He has enough data since re-installing the OEM CAI to drag the dealer back into the process of finding what the problem is. Unfortunately, there are many folks having frequent regens with no quick resolution in sight. Many have found leaks in the charge air system so that would be a place to start. There is a flexible coupler below and in front of the turbo that has a wire loom running near it that can rub on the coupler. Some have found that coupler with a hole worn in it. Mine was rubbing but not through. Others have found clamps loose on the hoses going to the intercooler(charge air cooler). Good places to start.
Drag the dealer back into it. If they refuse, contact Ram through @RamCares or some other avenue.
Good luck!

I have personally gone over all of the charge air system and checked for loose clamps or leaks and found nothing out of place. I have done everything I can without having access to a wiTech or other scan tool. Otherwise I would have done injector kill tests and leak-down tests to check for and rule out an injection problem.

I have never been more frustrated with the people that claim to be technicians but yet can't diag anything without a code or flowchart that tells you what part to change...Those people aren't techs they are parts changers.

I haven't gone the route of contacting Ram Cares because I'm afraid it will alienate the dealer that I have to deal with and then the treatment will be worse than it is now.

As far as going to another dealer; I've called other places but when the first question is "did you buy it from us" and I say no, the wait is automatically 3 months or longer for an app. Plus another dealer isn't going to go above and beyond to help because I didn't buy it from them...Trust me, been there done that, with my '13.

The dealers in my area some of the most spiteful people I have ever seen. Yet I keep going back?!?!? I guess I like getting kicked in the teeth.