Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) UhOh - loud knock and white smoke this morning...

[DieselMinded]

HEy bill ,

the turck will be fine... just stop by your local dodge dealer pick up a Cummins and go to Shieds ... . C-ya at IHOP 9am ????



:>



DM

 

[R-N-R]

Weekend test drive of a 3G??? :-laf

 

[mhenon]

Parked the truck after a short drive last night without any problem. This morning at startup (68*) the engine was knocking and white smoke was exiting the tail pipe. It almost sounds like the 3 cyl idle "feature". I swapped the ECM mid last week, that is the only recent change. Oil is good, gauges are normal. It was running bad enough that I parked the truck today. The knock did dissipate somewhat. It started out sounding like the bottom end and after a few minutes and several restarts it sounded more like it was coming from the top end.



Any ideas on where to start checking? I can swap the ECM back tonight, but I am concerned that something internal has gone south... .



TIA,

BIll

I'ed put that old ECM back on and see what happens. It's usually the last thing you messed with that's causing the problem.

Mike

 

[R-N-R]

Yep, I tried that last night after the injector swap, unfortunately it did not change or resolve the problem.

 

[480RUGER]

Anything new in the last few days? Mine started knocking with white smoke a few weeks ago after it sat for two months. It gave me a dead pedal for the first time last night.

 

[R-N-R]

Have you checked for codes?



I just got my pump out and I am pretty sure that the condition of the key is the problem. The corner of the key is shaved from shaft to the numbers on one side front to rear. It would appear that I screwed up the alignment during install. Otherwise, but doubtful, in internal mechanical failure caused the damage, most likely the install is the culprit. I'll have to call IIS on Monday and see where to go from here.



Cudos to my TDR friends that have chimed in here, PM'd, and called. The support is awesome! Then there is FMcClaren who is helping turn wrenches. Graphicman & CTDgirl are on their way from Canada to help out. I6dzl is driving across the state to bring me a loaner pump from LSFarm. DieselMinded, Bob Wagner, and Brady plus everybody already mentioned have all spent a lot time on the phone helping and listening to me whine :-laf



I sure feel blessed for being able to associate with all of my TDR friends.



Bill

 

[wtfd6]

hey bill,



wish i could make it up there today. hope everything goes ok. i think it would be hard to mess up the key on installation. i think it would have acted up much sooner. anyway i hope to see everyone in a couple of weeks. take it easy. mark

 

[R-N-R]

Well, #1 cylinder is dead... . pulling the head right now :{

 

[wtfd6]

oh man that sucks. sorry to hear that. how many miles are on your truck bill?



mark

 

[JoshPeters]

Why have you gone from VP to Head/headgasket issues?



I hope for your sake that it's just a gasket.



FYI, before you put that head back on, GET IT MILLED!

Take it from someone who has done 5, count them 5 headgaskets because he thought the head was straight!



I'm running studs, if I was running the stock bolts..... I can have the head off in just under an hour on my 12v.



Good Luck!

Josh

 

[JoshPeters]

Yes- on the fan, that's what I'm planning on with mine..... You've heard of the Turbo Timer right? Why not a VP Timer? Shut the truck down, step out, walk away as you hear the comforting whirr of a cooling fan blowing on the VP pump so the elec. board doesn't roast with the heated air contained with-in the engine compartment while truck is not in motion, and then shut-down in timed increments... ... . why not?



Shame we can't relocate the electric board off of that hot pump... .....

Look into what Fed-Ex did with their VP issues. From what I understand they got fed up with puking VP's, so they had someone redesign them so the heat isn't an issue to the Electronics anymore.



Josh

 

[R-N-R]

Good & Bad News - Carnage

Why have you gone from VP to Head/headgasket issues?

Chalk it up to the learning curve I suppose. The VP was making the most noise plus the white smoke kept me thinking in the fuel direction. And mostly, this problem did not surface while driving, but on morning startup. #1 cylinder was 20* cooler (cheapie temp laser), and did not sound any different than the others. I suspect that a small piece of the valve seat broke off 2 weeks ago Fri, and the rest of the seat blew out last Tues on startup. In hindsight, I probably did most of the damage running the motor trying to troubleshoot.



#ad




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#1 Cylinder has three vertical scratches that can be felt with a finger, but should clean up with a hone and finish grit stone.



#1 Piston is gouged and has chunks of valve seat embedded in it.



#4 Piston nicked and has valve seat pieces (??) embedded in it, but it should clean up without needing replacement. The cylinder is okay.



VP44 is questionable, but most likely it will be okay with a key replacement.



So now...

Take the truck and parts to a shop for repair/reassembly?

Pull the motor and take it to a shop for cylinder repair/reassembly?

Hone the cylinder while in the truck?

Don't hone the cylinder at all?

How to swap the piston without pulling the motor?

Find a piston to "match" the cylinder?

Where to get the head magnafluxed and reworked?



Truck has about 44k on it. Thanks for the tip on milling the head, it was also seeping out the front.



EDIT: I forgot to add "DAMMIT!" :-laf

 

[MACHINEST]

R-N-R

Sorry to see this... If it were mine,i would pull the pan push out #1 and #4,Put boat loads of rags over crank at the bottom of the Cyls. . Get a bore spec on the engine and hone the #1 and #4... Check ID of bore after honeing,if it is over bore spek,at 440-480 lbs of compression,I would have it bored and honed,if with in spec,put 2 new pistons in what you have,as far as the head goes,if one or 2 seats broke,i think i would replace the head... Just for a piece of mind... . I hope all works out for you... .

 

[R-N-R]

Machinest, thank you for the response, I appreciate your advice.



If I have to, or otherwise, hone it over bore spec, do I bore and hone it then find a piston to match? Or would I have to have it sleeved?



How much of a scratch in the cylinder wall is acceptable for these motors?

 

[MACHINEST]

If it is honed to very much over the high limit of the max. bore spec you will have a loose piston on the skirts of the piston where it meets the cyl bore... Also a cheep cyl hone is going to just jump over your small galded area,and more than likely you will egg shape the bore of the block. Now there are some really great hones out there,mechinical where you adjust 2 stones out into the bore it also has 2 felt wipers on it(Ammco makes one great hones i have used them i have one here but it isn't big enough for a 5. 9..... A few small marks in the cyl wall after honing,will lead to a little oil consumption. . Just how much depends on the depth of the groove. I think if you check with cummins the oversize pistons come in . 010 incermants,this i may be wrong on although. as far as sleeving goes i don't think you will have to do that,from what i see in your pic above... ... .

 

[MACHINEST]

Also if your going to pull the pistons,after you pull the rod cap off,make sure you put a pc. of gas hose over the studs in the rod,because if the stud(threaded part hits the crank)... It will nick it, not good... ... . Hope this helps.....

 

[Graphic man]

Bill,

don't get discouraged we'll get it fixed up !!!!



Scott

 

[R-N-R]

Machinist, I am definately out of my league on this one, fortunately I have good friends. So any and all tips are greatly appreciated!!! I am still

onward through the fog" at this point.



Heck Scott, if it wasn't for you, Curtis, and Frank... . I'd be parking it in the ghetto and wait my 30 days for payout... :-laf :-laf :-laf Just kidding!



Seriously though, my biggest concern is being able to hone out enough of the scratch, and not getting a good round hone without pulling the motor.



Anybody know how to raise the motor in the truck and support it to swap the pistons?

 

[R-N-R]

Added pics

I added pics of the cylinders and VP key here.

 

[IC Smoke]

Bill, Im sorry for your loss!



Any thought of the current mods might have contributed to the demise of the ol girl? ( I know any mod will ruin a motor but im just asking for input since it seems odd that would happen to a low mile truck)



If youve got the tools Im up for a hand in pulling it out



Ian