V-8 Power Stroke and I-6 Cummins

[LarryB]

Johnboy

What does the Cummins put out for HP in the med duty Fords?

 

[GBall]

PZicha. oooh cut me I bleed. So spelling aint a high priority with me. I usally post between breaks so when it's over or close to it I bail... sue me. I always wanted to post here but couldn't until this little discovery. So I'm not going to let an uptight,spelling guru bother me. Go a head stay with your"detuned" comment. I don't care. If you really believe it then what ever. Still sounds Dorkie to me. Guess the Gassers are "detuned to cause the ones NASCAR are running really breath man! I like the cummins and the dodge truck for that matter. I have friends that drive them. I seen one line up agianst a lowerd chev gasser a while back at a stop light When that dude took off it reminded me of those little black pills that we used to get on the fourth of july. I think we called the catepillers(i hope I spelled that close enough cause i aint spell checking for no one)or snakes. Thick black smoke came out of that thing but holy cow he killed the chev. So if thats Tuned up ( the opposite of detuned). I don't think it will fly with the clean air act. Talk to ya later EVIL GBall P. S. lighten PZicha just a freindly discusion:--)

 

[PZicha]

No hard feelings ... would you settle for derated , mellowed maybe . . you know on the very first trucks with the cummins if they came with any less power they would of had to pull the turbo off

 

[GBall]

Yah!! thats it. Oo. How about choked by emission standards or inviromentaly challenged. No hard feelings here either there PZicha.

EVIL GBall

 

[libertyram]

I have been a ford guy all my life. Till last year I had a 69 ford ranger with a 390 that I dearly loved. But when I decided to go the diesel route and did my homework, the cummins comes out on top, hands down. I had enough money set aside to buy any truck I wanted and had intended on buying a ford F350. Once I learned about Cummins as a company and the products they make, that swayed me to the dodge. Although I can see why the Ford guy's can like their trucks, it is the Chevy guy's that amaze me. They will take the side of an engine with no history against a company (Cummins) that single handedly got diesel engines into trucks to begin withand and have ruled the heavy truck market for years. Back to the Fords, how many power strokes do you find on Case back-ho's.

 

[LarryB]

Libertyram



A good friend, a Chevy man for 30 years, has been seriously considering the Dmax since it came out. He started out telling me how the Dmax was going to out pull me as soon as he got it, how nice and quiet it was, Allison, bla bla bla. . We traveled (RVd) a bit together and he became slightly impressed with my power, sound, durability, mileage. He's very methodical and talked with every Dmax and Ram RVer he came in contact with. He had money set aside to buy whatever he decided upon. He just called me 2 days ago. He said he decided he wanted a real truck for pulling and was just leaving to pick up his brand new 02' HO Ram. He spends most of his time pulling his 5th wheel TT and his research (retired CFO) determined this was the best rig for the job. Said he wanted an 02' instead of waiting for the 03's because he was afraid the 03' would sound like a Chevy. :-laf

 

[Warpig]

I can't blame these Ferd guys for spoutin off. I would be angry too if I spent all that money on a nice new truck,(thinking it was the best) only to find out later it was inferior to the Dodge ctd. Now wanting to trade it in, only to realize they can't get squat for it compared to what they paid.

Next time Ferd boys do your homework, and spend your hard earned money wisely, you'll be much happier



Tim W.

 

[GBall]

They are holding their value just fine thank you. I seen some ctd's at the local ford, used car lot just yesterday. Some one must of got tired of hauling around an extra lift pump and insalling it on the side of the free way:--)!!

I have to go for a couple of weeks.

so I hope this comp. still has GBall's

acct. open when i get back,so I can

help you boy's out a liitle, and maybe

change a few minds on how you think us

ford boys are. Enjoyed the "freindly"

rivalry take care and keep on truckin.

The EVIL GBall

 

[MJawsman]

Originally posted by LarryB

Johnboy

What does the Cummins put out for HP in the med duty Fords?

At the MN State fair in 1997, I saw a Ford F8000 med duty dump truck with the 12V B5. 9 engine. The data plate read 210 HP and 550 lb torque. I'm guessing the GVWR of this truck was in the 30,000 class. At the time I was driving a 97 12 V 215 HP Ram, and I was amazed at the same engine in a much bigger truck. I wish I still had that truck, but that's another story.

 

[LarryB]

Originally posted by GBall

I seen some ctd's at the local ford, used car lot just yesterday.

The EVIL GBall

:-laf :-laf



The Ford dealers buy used Dodge CTDs at auction anytime they can so they will have something good to sell.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Ya ever notice that 2 issues the Ford guys will carefully avoid and NEVER respond to is:



1. If the International V8 diesel is so great and reliable, WHY doesn't Ford use them in their bigger trucks instead of the Cummins B-5. 9 they would like to convince US is so inferior in our SMALLER trucks?



2. If V8 diesel power is the smart and efficient way to go, WHY don't the BIG 18 wheelers use them - and when they DID try them for a while, couldn't dump them fast enough!



C'mon Ford fellas, step right up and give us some good logical info here, rather than school yard bluster and BS...

 

[GBall]

Actually their there so they can start them up and

say "see all diesel knock" The EVIL GBall

 

[PZicha]

GO GARY

Two very good points Gary , I'd also love a responce

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Actually their there so they can start them up and

say "see all diesel knock" The EVIL GBall"





And THERE you have it - as close to a "mature" and well thought out response you will EVER get from a Ford diesel fan...



I rest my case!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

IN response to a claim by the Ford guys that engine duty ratings was PRIMARILY related to emissions, and had LITTLE to NOTHING to do with engine life or durability, I sent an Email directly to Cummins for their explanation on what were the primary parameters used in determining those duty ratings - here's their reply:



==========

Summary: Engine duty cycles



Solution:

Thanks for your email request about emission duty cycles.



There are 3 levels of EPA certifications:

Light-heavy duty, Medium-heavy duty and Heavy-heavy duty.



Light-heavy duty engines... ... ... ... expected emissions warranty life 110,000 to 120,000 miles

non rebuildable engines limited gross weight capability



Medium-heavy duty engines... ... . expected emissions warranty life 185,000 miles

rebuildable engines for vehicles up to 33,000 pounds



Heavy-heavy duty engines... ... ... expected emissions warranty life to exceed 500,000 miles

rebuildable engines for heavy duty use for vehicles up to

120,000 pounds



Cummins only sells Medium-heavy duty or Heavy-heavy duty engines for vehicles in excess of 8600 GVWR.

The engine life-to-overhaul expectations for the Cummins B5. 9 series 12 valve mechanical engine is 300,000 miles and 400,000 for the ISB 24 valve electronic engines.

The C8. 3 and L10 engines have expected life-to-overhaul or 800,000 miles.

The M11 engines have 900,000 miles and the N14 has one million mile expected

life-to-overhaul.

==========



NOW, it SHOULD be rather obvious that references to emissions in the above, relates to the point at which a worn engine begins to smoke and emit products that exceed established limits - another way of saying the dern thing is worn to the point it's oil consumption and blowby is no longer acceptable, or meets specific values. (how ELSE would ANY manufacturer or service facility determine the point at which an engine required O'haul?)



It's ALSO quite clear from the above, that the same MILEAGE MEASUREMENT used by Cummins is one that is ALSO used by other manufacturers, and is the BASIC parameter in determining whether a specific engine type will be certified as "light duty", "medium duty", or "heavy duty"...



Does the EPA or emissions have anything to do with the rating? SURE, but ONLY as a *measuring tool* to determine at what MILEAGE a typical manufacturers engine will normally, on the average, require O'haul, and from THAT data, comes the duty rating that will be granted TO that engine type!



SO, if the Cummins is rated as "medium duty", and the International V8 is certified "light duty", how much weight do YOU think average expected engine life and reliability carry in arriving at that certification - and all things being equal, which one do YOU wanna use for work and play for the next 10-20 years... ?

 

[drees1]

B5.9 GVW

I was looking through a little CAT brochure at our CAT dealership comparing the B5. 9 to the 3126 (7. 2 liter) CAT. It said the Cummins 24 valve B5. 9 was rated up to 56,000 gvw in on highway applications. Although this would be under powered, it does show the durability and confidence Cummins has in this great motor. The B5. 9 is undoubtedly the most durable engine of it's size ever offered. Cummins threw 20 or so Engineers in a room to design the "C" and the "B" in an effort to get back into the market and avoid a Japaneese takeover. Out rolled one of the best engines ever made. History is already proving it. The bean counters will probably never allow that to happen again!!! We need to enjoy it while we got it.



By the way, in the trucking industry, we use GVW to define light duty, medium duty, and heavy duty as mentioned in the posts above. The expected life to overhaul is secondary in the definition. Trucking industry stats that track sold units to medium duty and heavy duty use GVW to make the classification.



Doug Rees