VE went to injection pump heaven

[jaynes]

was sittin at a stoplight yesterday minding my own business when the engine just stops. I was like ":--) " So I tried to restart. Nothing. Cranked the engine for about 15 seconds straight. No fire. I was stalled in the left hand lane of a two lane road, a busy road at that. So after people got done flipping me the bird and honking:-{} , 4 nice guys helped me push it off the road. Still wouldn't start. I cracked the first four injectors to see if I was getting fuel. I cranked it while looking under my hood through the windshield, and after about 10 seconds, fuel started to squirt out. 10 seconds?! Thats not right, it should have been there! I tightened em back up and cranked some more. Half way through my alotted 15 seconds of crank time, each cylinder started to light up one by one, and with my foot to the floor and alittle help my pal Starter, it came back to life. I was happy. Or so I thought. After it did this a second time, I knew what was up. I tried limping it to the diesel injection service, but after running through the same motions FOUR TIMES, it would no longer stay running. Called a tow truck. The worst part it, the tow truck was a Chevy with a 6. 5 turbo diesel it!:{ The shop second my worst fears, VE failure. Well, after 216,000 miles, it was just his time. He was old, he's now in VE heaven. Pastor Bob, can you help me with this one:



'Yea, as I walk through the junkyard of the shadow of injection pumps, I will fear no Chevy diesel... "



Josh Jaynes

 

[sparks57]

Scary dude, I've got like 213k on mine... last summer the shut off solenoid froze on me for a week... but now it SEEMS to be fine.



If my pump goes out, I'm gonna be pi$$ed.

 

[jaynes]

If my pump goes out, I'm gonna be pi$$ed

Dude, here's what I told myself. I said "Self, I'm going to wait just two more months so I have the money and the time to replace it [myself] so I don't have to pay for labor. "



Well, it didn't wait two months. I suggest getting it taken care of soon, if you already haven't had it rebuilt or anything, cause you don't want to get stranded in the middle of one of the busiest streets in town. Just watchin out for ya man, I wish I'd saved my money (i did, but I spent it on stuff) and done it before it happened, cause I knew it was going to happen, i just thought it could wait two months. I wonder how they're doing fixing it... ?



jaynes

 

[jaynes]

While i'm posting stuff, I wanted to know how hard is it to replace wheel bearings? Expensive?



jaynes

 

[MrWinkey]

Was there any warning signs?



I'm quickly aproaching 200k

 

[sparks57]

Yes, you will develop small metal shavings in the pump, which can be magneted out.



I'm thinking I might call up Piers and see if they have re-worked pumps that I can buy. They have "performance" pumps, but I don't know what they do to them.



If they just do simple stuff, like a fuel pin and the other basics, then I won't bother. But if they're balanced and upgraded internally, it's worth it. Maybe they can custom build me one.

 

[sparks57]

Originally posted by jaynes

While i'm posting stuff, I wanted to know how hard is it to replace wheel bearings? Expensive?



jaynes

Piece o' cake.

 

[MrWinkey]

Where would the metal shavings be?



I've never checked my pump at all.

 

[1stgen4evr]

pump failure

I never second guess anyones repair but I don't think your failure sounds like the pump total but the on-off solonoid. I have never seen one go from running good to sudden death like you describe that was not related to the on-off solonoid. My 92 did the stop dead and it was the on-off. My 93 has symptomes like you describe but it was a bad connection on the wire to the on- off solonoid. Injection pumps typically get to the point they won't squirt hard enough to fire up the engine. Slow demise, not sudden death as you describe.



Hope it is simple, not expensive.



OFitzgerald, the metal fragments are at the plunger where they have been attracted by the magnetism of/from the on off solonoid. The unit has to be out to find them. They scare the heck out of me as I know that they will do nasty things if they go through the high pressure parts of the system. I had some big enough to clog a tip.



1stgen4evr

James

 

[dpuckett]

jaynes-

You and your roommate should have come down here over spring break; I could have got it rebuilt for ya for around $400; and done the R&R for a tank of fuel, though it would have been about 29. 5 gallons. ANyway, hope it all goes well for you. Mine is still going; but I know enough to be able to rig it to get me home if that should ever be the case.

Wheel bearings are easy, esp if you have a D250 (for newbies who havent read the stickies, it is a 2wd 3/4ton), and dont have a 40# hub extension to mess with. PM or email me if you have any questions. Be sure to get new seals, since the old ones are probably the originals



OFitzgerald- I wouldnt worry about the pump based on mileage alone- it is more symptoms of running bad, smoking (and not from overfuelling ), poor MPG (and not from a heavy right foot, or lots of in town driving with a heavy-ish foot. ) If it starts, runs, and doesnt suck fuel, I wouldnt worry too much about it; mine has 275K on it, never been rebuilt. Now that I bragged on it, watch it cr@p out next week.



Daniel

 

[MidwestMotorman]

I would second the fuel shutoff solenoid or the relay. With injection pumps, when they die, they are dead with no revival. BUT, I am not the tech working on it. If they charge you the $1300 to replace your pump, check and see if the shutoff soleniod is changed or not. My guess is the shop will install a new soleniod when their $1300 fix doesn't work, and then they will still bill you the full amount and not say anything.



Cheers!



As long as I am writing this, does anyone know how good a Cummins reman VE is? I have one on my rig, painted in tan, and I was just wondering if anyone has gotten 250k out of them.

 

[bgilbert]

Shutoff solenoid about $81 from Cummins. Try replacing it first before rebuilding pump. With it malfunctioning- staying closed it will prevent fuel from goin to the injectors. Anyone know if a shutoff solenoid can be rebuilt-new plunger, spring? Bill

 

[MidwestMotorman]

You could also check the fuel supply hoses. Maybe one of them has cracked and it opens up when the motor is rattling around. Might seal enough to hand prime but opens up when motor shakes.

Did you check the obvious... that your fuel gauge or sender bit the dust and you have run it low or out of fuel?

 

[CRivero]

I'm not sure if my VE is taking a cr@p. I can't seem to generate more that 15 psi of boost using an HX35 with a 12 cm exhaust housing. I'm getting a good amount of consistently white smoke at idle and generate some black smoke when I punch it but it fizzes out after two seconds or so while at WOT.



How can I test if the injector pump is bad besides looking for shavings? Would installing a fuel pressure gauge help? What is the normal operating pressure of the pump? I've been trying to work out this performance problem for about a week now and my mechanic is telling me to upgrade to the p7100. I am leary of this approach since he has done zero testing to determine if the pump is the cause of the lackluster performance and the conversion is not trivial.



Anyone have the PDF version of the VE technical manual from SAE? I tried buying it last week, but it was not available for download (not in their database) although the description was available on their web site.

 

[MidwestMotorman]

CRivero... some specs from my 90 FSM...

no more than 3 psi drop across the fuel filter... lift pump should put out a minimum of 3/4 quart within 30 secs of crank time and lift pump pressure should be 3-5 psi... Other things to consider... make sure your manual shut down is in the vertical position as it can obstruct fuel flow... white smoke going to black is an indication of retarded timing... Chevy trucks run a check valve in the fuel line to keep the fuel there for startup. You may have severly restricted fuel flow on the supply or return side if you are running the stock tank and module. You can unbolt the return line and have it dump into a pail to check return flow. This is very important as the VE pump is made to self bleed air into the return line.

 

[MrWinkey]

Thanks! Dpuckett!



My truck ran great last time I had it out (waiting on new transmission). Stuck drivin the wifes.



I get between 20-23 mpg so I think it's prolly OK. It does smoke but only when your leanin on it really hard.

 

[JLEONARD]

CRivero

I have the VE manual in .pdf format.

Send me an e-mail to



-- email address removed --



and Ill return with the attachment. If I don't get your request before 3:30 today, I won't be able to send it till monday.

Jay

 

[1stgen4evr]

REMAN

As long as I am writing this, does anyone know how good a Cummins reman VE is? I have one on my rig, painted in tan, and I was just wondering if anyone has gotten 250k out of them.



Nathan Bush





Cummins reman is typically good. But not always. Like anything else, they do make mistakes. I think you can reasonably expect to get long service. 250k? Probably more. And don't forget that things happen to injection pumps that are not relative to the rebuild.



One other thought for CRivero. Actually a question. Are you saying that the smoke disappears under load of acceleration or just reving the engine. As the rpms go up, the pump will cut back (and the smoke as well) from the action of the governor. That is normal.



1stgen4evr

James

 

[Wayne M.]

Originally posted by jaynes

While i'm posting stuff, I wanted to know how hard is it to replace wheel bearings? Expensive?



jaynes

It's not that hard, just replace the races (cups) too! That is just a bit harder but makes the job right.

 

[jaynes]

sorry!

Hey sorry I haven't kept everyone updated. I was getting fuel to it, but with very weak pressure. I had to crack the injector lines to get fuel up there after the pump would quit. I got it towed to this diesel injection shop. They tore it apart and found that the one of the springs was fractured and the other one had very little elasticity left in it. The fractured one was the one that cause it to die. They did a rebuild on it. The replaced both springs, all the gaskets and o-rings, the rollers, the control collar, the start-stop solenoid and the KSB. The rebuild cost me $560. When they got it back on there was when I had just arrived. It took about 20 minutes to get her fired back up again. Lot-o-air. Thank goodness I bought that brand new battery! They even tweaked it for me with a little turn on the fuel delivery screw and turned the aneroid screw (smoke screw) up alittle bit (i would have done that anyway). But boy it runs good now. It tacked about 7 mph on my top speed. I can get up to 87 now!! . So anyway.



Daniel, I wish I would have know that you could have gotten me a rebuilt for $400! Only problem would have been I couldn't drive it down there cause i had no fire. But thats ok. I still have a turbo we can deal with sooner or later (probably later). Sorry this was so long!



Josh