Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) VP Pump part #s ?? Waht's the Diff. if any?

[lsenus]

My '99 Quad 4x4 5sp has started with the dead pedal, and is showing code 0216. Pump is obviously on the way out. It's going to a cummins shop in SE PA Monday for diagnosis, a valve adjustment, and possibly injectors if they'll do a "performance" upgrade.

My question is: What are the part numbers for the old style VP vs. the Fedex VP? Is there a visual way to tell once it's installed?

 

[CEpp]

the only down fall of a fedex pump is it defuels at 2700... .

 

[lsenus]

Bummer about the 2700 RPM defuel. Do the new VP's have the electronics fixed, without the defuel?

 

[Motorhead]

What is so special about a Fedex pump? We run 24v's in UPS trucks and they had problems also. They were also rated at only 215hp.

 

[SpicyJam]

What is so special about a Fedex pump? We run 24v's in UPS trucks and they had problems also. They were also rated at only 215hp.

They were suppose to have more key cycles in the hardware, unfortunately they are not any better than any other VP. In fact Cepp is right I have seen it over and over again the 029 pump will defuel at 2700... ... ... the dyno does not lie.

The pump you originally had was a rev 027, the the ETH (01,02 6spd trucks HO) had a 028. Then the Fed Ex version as it came be known as was rev 029 and now there is a rev 030 out. I still am not clear at what the change is in the 030 might be for a more universal use.

If you are looking for a pump shoot me a pm I can help you out, Thanks Jim.

 

[CEpp]

supposably the 030 has improved electronics... . my hrvp started life as a 030. if your ever going to mod your truck... dont do a fedex pump... if u arent then id do it... but for bombed... stock vp or hrvp

 

[lsenus]

It sounds like the 030 revesion non "fedex" is the way to go then. I'm not planning any major bombs, nothing like 600 HP etc. I want to keep the tire bill low! Not really looking for anything more than a better than average daily driver that'll take on most of the powerchokes around here, and tow rig to handle the horse trailers, cargo trailer, etc. I've still got the stock clutch in it for now, but when the time comes I'll upgrade that.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I have seen it over and over again the 029 pump will defuel at 2700

As opposed to what RPM for other stock pumps? It has been my understanding that ALL stock version pumps will start defueling at 2700 RPM. and the revision level has nothing to do with that function.



Anyone have a pointer to a Bosch or DC source that claims otherwise?



Exactly what controls defueling - the VP-44 internal board, the ECM, or the PCM?



For the record, here's a quote made by Marco on the 2700 RPM defueling issue:



=======

Quote:

Marco, any change to that? torque management stays as stock and 2700rpm defueling stays as stock in the Mad ECM?

Any change? That's a question...

Fact is the CaTCHER has always taken care of the the "torque management".

That's if you refer to the 1st-2nd gear defuel in the 01 an later trucks.



2700rpm defuelling? The CaTCHER improves that, always has. Yet, it's not as strong above 2700 as I would like, thus I say nothing worth to mention.



===========



It would appear that the 2700 RPM defueling has LONG been in existence in stock pumps - and that the ECM at least plays some part in it - also keep in mind that aftermarket power boxes like the Edge Drag Comp remove the RPM limit from OUTSIDE the VP-44 - perhaps the RPM is not totally controlled by the VP-44?

 

[NoSeeUm]

Gary;



I missed your point. Sorry, I'm a little slow.



Are you saying that all defueling above 2700 RPM is strictly under the control of the ECM?



Jim

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary;



I missed your point. Sorry, I'm a little slow.



Are you saying that all defueling above 2700 RPM is strictly under the control of the ECM?



Jim

No - what I *think* I'm suggesting is that ALL stock VP-44's *start* defueling at 2700 RPM, regardless of revisions or year model - and that there are substantial indications that EXTERNAL influences can also play a key part in altering exactly when and how defueling takes place.



My view contrasts with some above who feel - as this post suggests:

the only down fall of a fedex pump is it defuels at 2700... .

And this one:

In fact Cepp is right I have seen it over and over again the 029 pump will defuel at 2700

... As *I* see it, ALL the stock VP's start to defuel at 2700 RPM, unless external mods are made to change that characteristic!



Any clearer?

 

[SpicyJam]

No - what I *think* I'm suggesting is that ALL stock VP-44's *start* defueling at 2700 RPM, regardless of revisions or year model - and that there are substantial indications that EXTERNAL influences can also play a key part in altering exactly when and how defueling takes place.



My view contrasts with some above who feel - as this post suggests:







And this one:







... As *I* see it, ALL the stock VP's start to defuel at 2700 RPM, unless external mods are made to change that characteristic!



Any clearer?

Gary you are right on stock VP defuleing... ... ... . but the Fed-Ex pump can not be influenced by any outside box.

I have a Dyno graph that shows just that... ... ... well a few of them for that matter.

Take my truck, yes it is a HRVP, but still @ 3000 rpm I still have 997 FPT and 559hp and it does not fall off till 3600rpm.

Even my stock 028 VP that I had would pull the graph past 3100rpm before it fell off.

Anyway we laid that over a Fed-ex pump, he had a TST PM3 "hot" and stacked with a EZ... ... ... trucks falls flat at 2700 like it hit a wall.

Hope that helps some... ... .....

 

[DJLink]

Hey guys

Sorry to be slow but what do you mean by defueling?

 

[darkhorse]

Hey guys

Sorry to be slow but what do you mean by defueling?

It's like a governor. The fueling is cut back or off to limit rpm, egt or mph.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

but the Fed-Ex pump can not be influenced by any outside box.

HMMmmm - that's interesting - so you're saying that any rebuilt VP-44 that has the later internal electronics - what some refer to as the "Fed-Ex board" - will NOT see increased RPM above 2700 RPM without defueling, even with a Drag Comp?



First I have heard of that one...



HEY BRETT - you have any info on that?

 

[SpicyJam]

HMMmmm - that's interesting - so you're saying that any rebuilt VP-44 that has the later internal electronics - what some refer to as the "Fed-Ex board" - will NOT see increased RPM above 2700 RPM without defueling, even with a Drag Comp?



First I have heard of that one...



HEY BRETT - you have any info on that?

Gary since I am a dealer for Industrial Injection Brett is actually Brady using his sons ID, send him a PM and he will explain. Thanks Jim.

 

[DMcPherson]

the "fed ex" vp as far as i am aware, is no different than any other vp44 that is non chrysler. actually we only use 2 different pumps on everything with a vp besides chrysler. if you are referring to a campaign pump than they are all the same. although supposedly better.

 

[CCahill]

I'm also interested... one reason I didn't want to go with the HRVP is that I have a comp, and hoped that would keep it from defueling at 2700... . :{

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

the "fed ex" vp as far as i am aware, is no different than any other vp44 that is non chrysler

That's my understanding as well - nor can I imagine any reason the later VP-44 internal boards should function any different than earlier versions, other than their improved ability to deal with underhood temperatures that were considered a major cause of failures on original pumps.



The reason I tend to jump in on subjects like this, is that in addition to the few directly active in these threads, there are also lots of casual readers and lurkers who might soak up what the read here as Gospel - and not check comments for accuracy - sort of a "Ford owns Cummins" scenario.



So when I see a comment that seems sorta questionable, I like to get the facts straight, for my own education, and to set/keep the record straight.

 

[NoSeeUm]

Thanks Gary...



Well OK, I certainly learned something here. It would have never occured to me that anything but the ECM (timing / fuel pulse signals to the VP-44) would have any direct control over the VP-44. Nor the VP-44 actively defueling outside of that control.



Does anyone know, per chance, why this is so? Does the VP-44 need to protect itself from high RPM?



Other than self protection it seems that the VP-44 would not give a rats *** about what the engine RPM is. Thats the ECM's job. But in this case, it seems that "It is what it is".



Jim

 

[lsenus]

Talked with the Cummins shop yesterday. Dead VP and LP. The funny thing is, I never saw presures less than 10 at WOT post filter at any time since I put this lift pump in 30K ago. Cummins said that even though there were good presures, the volume wasn't there.



What is the recomended flow rate that the VP likes to see? 90 gallons per hour? 150 GPH? More?



Does just putting a larger supply line provide the cure, or should the return line also be replaced? Is the flow determined by the size of the supply or the return line? i. e. a firehose supplying a hypodermic needle?





Maybe it's time to go to Home Depot and get a basement sump pump and put that in the tank! :-laf