Competition Warning about Studs!

[JoshPeters]

Gentlemen this is Just and FYI. Not a flaiming issue.



I am currently installing 12mm studs. I had 3 that I wanted to snug down a littl more, due to they did not match the installed height of the other studs. (yes I did clean and tap the holes) So I brought home my stud extractor/install tool from work. This is a slick little tool, that has 3 roller clutches that when you turn them... they will lock up and you can spin the studs in or out. BUT as they do this they WILL put pressure on the threads of the stud. DO NOT USE A TOOL LIKE THIS WITH THE STUDS FOR OUR TRUCKS! The studs appear to be a 12mm stud, but with 20threads per inch. There is no tap available in this size! I used a thread file to repair the threads on the 3 studs that I goofed up.



I thought that this would be best seen in the competition forum, as to the nature of studs.....



Moderator... if you disagree with this being posted here... please feel free to move it.



Have a great day guys!



Back to the freezing garage... .

Josh

 

[Forrest Nearing]

can't you just double-nut the studs?

 

[COMP461]

If you will use the ARP 2000 stud , it has as Allen head broached in it to install and remove the stud. It is very critical that there are no scratches , nicks or dints on a stud . this weakens them and dose not deliver the clamping load before the fastener yields. Another bit of info on studs is the use of proper lubricants on the threads on the nut end. ARP recommends engine oil on the stud in to the block , after chasing and cleaning the block threads. The use of the proper lube , supplied by ARP is critical to developing the intended clamp load. The practice of going over the bolts yield dose nothing farther but yield( stretch) the stud. For a 12 millimeter ARP 2000 stud , with moly lube , around 122 lbs is 95% of yield, and delivers the max clamp load. If you don’t get the stud close to yield , the available elasticity is not great enough to keep the head clamped to the block, and let it float.

 

[DieselTweaker]

I Highly recommend the use of ARP moly lube it's some amazing stuff and you can get more torque out of fasteners just by using it

 

[JoshPeters]

can't you just double-nut the studs?

Yes you can... and that's what I did initially... . the problem with that is on the main 14 bolts, you only thread the top of the Double-nut on by about 1. 5-2 threads or the bottom nut hits the head... so then you have not tightened the stud down at all. I am also using the ARP molly assy lube. Seems to be great stuff!



Comp, I agree... . but when it comes down to buying another set of studs... . I'll take what I have and fix it. I don't have the extra cash or time to put another set in. I'm not putting down crazy power... . yet

:-laf but when I do... I'll be using more than 12mm studs.



I'm using the studs from Haisley Machine. They do not have the allen as you have discribed. Their torque specs at the top end are 125lbs... get it to operating temp and retorque.



Josh

 

[nfox]

Head Studs

Can these 12mm studs be installed without removing the head?

 

[COMP461]

yes you can , remove the bolts and use an allen head socket to install the studs.

 

[RonA]

Josh.

I'm confused. You messed up the fine thread on the top? Did you damage the nuts? If the thread is messed up too much I might have some extras.

 

[JoshPeters]

Comp... . Please explain how you can use an Allen head socket? There is Nothing on the end of these to allow an allen head to turn these studs. Possibly the ARP specific bolts have that.



Yes you can install studs without removing the head. Actually when you reinstall the head, you only put the shortist 6 of the studs in. The rest are to tall to allow enough room for the head to fit.



I messed up the fine thread. The nuts are ok. I repaired the threads with a thread file. I don't believe that there is any kind of an issue with my fix. If there is, You... My fellow TDR members will know just as fast as I do!



Josh

 

[2broke2smoke]

so if i wanted to upgrade from bolts to the arp studs i could just replace the bolts without taking the head off ...



if so how?



take all the bolts out and then replace with studs?



replace one at a time according to factory torque sequence?



my truck needs to have the valves adjusted ... if i could just replace the bolts with studs when i adjust the valves ... . hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Bandit1]

the arp studs have an allen socket molded into the top of the studs for ease of installation, i had haisleys 12mm studs first and they worked great. the specs on the studs are same, just different name on them. good luck

 

[COMP461]

what lenth stud do you need , I have several extra , Ive been doing a little R&Dwith ARP and have a few extra studs left as extras , pm ill send you what you need if I have it

 

[RonA]

The tensile strength of the two brands are different according to their advertising. .

 

[TurboTweaker]

way to mess things up josh i leave you alone for a few hours and look what happens. jk buddy hope it goes good from here on out. remember pulling season is coming soon and i wouldnt wanna run the circut without you.



The Fat Kid

Andy

 

[JoshPeters]

2 Broke... . I would take them out one at a time according to the torque pattern and install them each at that time. Remove one bolt, install stud and torque to ARP or Haisleys spec. then to the next.



I appreciate the offer Comp, but after I was done cleaning the threads, the only difference I could see was the black finish was worn off.



Don't worry Fat Kid... I'll be there!



Josh

 

[RDupree]

i think the proper way to install head studs is by hand,if you use 2 nuts or a stud driver you stress the block with the stud,before you torque the nut. so,when you torque the nuts down the studs you put it with the tool or nuts will stress the block more than the other studs. on my engines the studs are screwed in by hand only. a "bottom"tap may be required to get the holes cleaned out all the way to the bottom. my 2 cents worth.

 

[JoshPeters]

The directions have say to "Snug" them. Not nessissarly tighten. The 3 that I was trying to tighten so to speak were not as far down as the rest.



Josh

 

[jwilliams3]

How do you get a tap into the block holes if you are not removing the head while doing the one by one stud install?

 

[mcoleman]

They can be done without removing the head but be careful that you get all of the oil out of the bolt holes before removing the factory bolts. If any oil gets into the bottom of the cavity you can have a hydraulic type problem where the oil will prevent the stud from being tightened correctly.

 

[justinp20012500]

How do you get a tap into the block holes if you are not removing the head while doing the one by one stud install?

Good question????

I did not have to tap mine. The threads went all the way down the hole.

I just used one of the stock head bolts to chase all the threads before I installed all the studs.


Justin-