Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q
[B
Probably an Amsoil derivitive...
(Duckin' and runnin'... ) :-laf :-laf :-laf [/B]
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What brand of oil should I use
- Thread starter Texas Diesel
- Start Date
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Perhaps now would be a good time to break the news:
"Ford owns Amsoil" :-laf
"Ford owns Amsoil" :-laf
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No, no, Amsoil bought Ford, but realized it would drag their good name down with it, and sold it off, to Hyanadii.
BTW, Amsoil strongly recommends keeping the oil in the crankcase.
BTW, Amsoil strongly recommends keeping the oil in the crankcase.
Gary - any luck with an extended-drain study to post here? I'd be interested in reading that.
Also Tejas posed a point to consider: what are the other high-milage Rams using in the crankcase? Are there some using synthetics and extended-drain intervals? What do the big rigs use? I'm sure that if there was a way to reduce maintenance time without compromising engine longevity that they'd do it. Time=$ when you drive for a living. No money comes in when the wheels aren't turning.
Also Tejas posed a point to consider: what are the other high-milage Rams using in the crankcase? Are there some using synthetics and extended-drain intervals? What do the big rigs use? I'm sure that if there was a way to reduce maintenance time without compromising engine longevity that they'd do it. Time=$ when you drive for a living. No money comes in when the wheels aren't turning.
Just to post a follow up. .
I guess I am going to have to run different oils in the CTD and my car.
I called the folks at <major synthetic oil company> and they said that you don't want to run a diesel engine oil in a gasser under any circumstances. The reason is that the diesel oil has so much more detergent in it that it can cause problems with detonation in a gasser. Oddly enough, that extra detergent can CAUSE engine deposits in a gasser.
I guess I will stick to the 10w-30 in the car, and 15w-40 in the truck.....
I guess I am going to have to run different oils in the CTD and my car.
I called the folks at <major synthetic oil company> and they said that you don't want to run a diesel engine oil in a gasser under any circumstances. The reason is that the diesel oil has so much more detergent in it that it can cause problems with detonation in a gasser. Oddly enough, that extra detergent can CAUSE engine deposits in a gasser.
I guess I will stick to the 10w-30 in the car, and 15w-40 in the truck.....
ONE of the studies I referred to up above, directly comparing synthetics against dino oils in extended drain service is printed by SAE International - it's their publication #952553, the copy I hold in my hands is a reprint from Engine Lubricants (SP-1121)
It's far too lengthy to try to type and post here - and I haven't yet tried the SAE website for the original. IN that detailed article, which was specifically written to display the benefits of synthetics, both in normal and extended service, they compared their chosen synthetics against several control oils refined for diesel use.
While the document clearly shows the synthetics superior in MOST areas of testing in extended drains out to nearly 65,000 miles, it ALSO shows the standard dino oils perform well out to nearly 35,000 miles as well, and actually BETTER than synthetics in some test areas - the engines used in testing were a mix of Cummins, Catterpillar, Detroit Diesel and Mack...
The dino oils used in the test at the time were CG-4 and CF-4 rated oils - the test is dated Oct. '95 - current spec oils now on the shelves for our diesels are CH-4 and CI-4 rated oils - what effect that might have today, as compared to competing synthetics is impossible for me to say - I would imagine the synthetics makers have been improving their product as well...
One item of particular interest in that study, was that out to the maximum mileage of 40,000 miles they used the dino oil, it held steady at *20% LOWER* iron content for the CG-4 dino as compared to the synthetic - makes ya wonder how that translates to engine life over the long haul for those using extended drains with synthetics, doesn't it...
WILL we ever see a million-mile Cummins using synthetic oil and extended drains?
The issue is NOT whether the synthetics will perform better in EXTREME climates, OR whether they will outlast the dino oils in extended drain intervals for those wanting to do extended drains - only to illustrate that the dino oils are ALSO capable of FAR longer run times than most of us use them, and counter the myth that synthetics are the only way to extend oil drain intervals...
And one more time, for MY money, use and climate, Delo 400, changed at about 7000 miles, along with my bypass filter suit ME just fine...
YMMV!
It's far too lengthy to try to type and post here - and I haven't yet tried the SAE website for the original. IN that detailed article, which was specifically written to display the benefits of synthetics, both in normal and extended service, they compared their chosen synthetics against several control oils refined for diesel use.
While the document clearly shows the synthetics superior in MOST areas of testing in extended drains out to nearly 65,000 miles, it ALSO shows the standard dino oils perform well out to nearly 35,000 miles as well, and actually BETTER than synthetics in some test areas - the engines used in testing were a mix of Cummins, Catterpillar, Detroit Diesel and Mack...
The dino oils used in the test at the time were CG-4 and CF-4 rated oils - the test is dated Oct. '95 - current spec oils now on the shelves for our diesels are CH-4 and CI-4 rated oils - what effect that might have today, as compared to competing synthetics is impossible for me to say - I would imagine the synthetics makers have been improving their product as well...
One item of particular interest in that study, was that out to the maximum mileage of 40,000 miles they used the dino oil, it held steady at *20% LOWER* iron content for the CG-4 dino as compared to the synthetic - makes ya wonder how that translates to engine life over the long haul for those using extended drains with synthetics, doesn't it...
WILL we ever see a million-mile Cummins using synthetic oil and extended drains?
The issue is NOT whether the synthetics will perform better in EXTREME climates, OR whether they will outlast the dino oils in extended drain intervals for those wanting to do extended drains - only to illustrate that the dino oils are ALSO capable of FAR longer run times than most of us use them, and counter the myth that synthetics are the only way to extend oil drain intervals...
And one more time, for MY money, use and climate, Delo 400, changed at about 7000 miles, along with my bypass filter suit ME just fine...
YMMV!
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Hohn, since I buy Delo in drums I use it in everything. 300+k in my Toyota, 100+k in an Accord and thousands of hours in gasser tractors. Guess I better quit doing that.
It's been awhile since I've looked at the label on a smaller Delo container but it used to say for gas and diesel engines on it.
It's been awhile since I've looked at the label on a smaller Delo container but it used to say for gas and diesel engines on it.
All the Diesel oils I have ever used, were rated for gas also.
Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q
While the document clearly shows the synthetics superior in MOST areas of testing in extended drains out to nearly 65,000 miles, it ALSO shows the standard dino oils perform well out to nearly 35,000 miles as well, and actually BETTER than synthetics in some test areas - the engines used in testing were a mix of Cummins, Catterpillar, Detroit Diesel and Mack...
(I believe dino oils do sometimes beat synthetics in certain areas. )
- what effect that might have today, as compared to competing synthetics is impossible for me to say - I would imagine the synthetics makers have been improving their product as well...
( some have Gary, others have actually lowered their standards, for cost, and finding out people were changing it more often than needed, so why bother putting the really good additives in?)
One item of particular interest in that study, was that out to the maximum mileage of 40,000 miles they used the dino oil, it held steady at *20% LOWER* iron content for the CG-4 dino as compared to the synthetic - makes ya wonder how that translates to engine life over the long haul for those using extended drains with synthetics, doesn't it...
(I would have to know WHAT synthetics were used, before I would jump to conclusions, too hastily. )
only to illustrate that the dino oils are ALSO capable of FAR longer run times than most of us use them, and counter the myth that synthetics are the only way to extend oil drain intervals...
(Gary, I have alwasy said 3000 miles is a joke, 5000 at least, or 7500 is no miles at all for Delo, expecially, with a good By-Pass.
The trouble is, only 1 ,one, oil company, advocates extended drains, past what the vehicle manufactore calls for)
And one more time, for MY money, use and climate, Delo 400, changed at about 7000 miles, along with my bypass filter suit ME just fine...
(Yes, we heard you before, everythread..... but no more STP?)
YMMV!
"And one more time, for MY money, use and climate, Delo 400, changed at about 7000 miles, along with my bypass filter suit ME just fine...
(Yes, we heard you before, everythread..... but no more STP?)"
============
Not in an engine not yet broken in - maybe later, maybe not...
============
"- what effect that might have today, as compared to competing synthetics is impossible for me to say - I would imagine the synthetics makers have been improving their product as well...
( some have Gary, others have actually lowered their standards, for cost, and finding out people were changing it more often than needed, so why bother putting the really good additives in?)"
===============
THIS is one major area of Amsoil in particular that I am interested in - earlier oil discussions have revealed the claim that the current primary reason Amsoil doesn't seek API certification for their diesel engine oils is due to the fact they won't LOWER some of the additive package contents required to meet that API certification, and bow to EPA and environmentalists demands that caused other refiners to alter additive package contents - regardless of potential wear-increasing tendencies those additive reductions might cause. If that proves to be true, my hat's off to Amsoil, and they would certainly be my first consideration for a synthetic in my Cummins...
I still can't quite bring myself to go the expense of synthetics in "normal" mileages - 7000 miles or less - but once my engine is broken in, and oil analysis is low enough in wear metals to justify it, I *could* see going to once a year changes using synthetic oil, and normal filter changes, which would be once for the stock full-flow, and about 3-4 changes for the Frantz - that, and the makeup oil COULD work out quite well, and not be much extra expense...
Now, don't beat on me TOO hard!
(Yes, we heard you before, everythread..... but no more STP?)"
============
Not in an engine not yet broken in - maybe later, maybe not...
============
"- what effect that might have today, as compared to competing synthetics is impossible for me to say - I would imagine the synthetics makers have been improving their product as well...
( some have Gary, others have actually lowered their standards, for cost, and finding out people were changing it more often than needed, so why bother putting the really good additives in?)"
===============
THIS is one major area of Amsoil in particular that I am interested in - earlier oil discussions have revealed the claim that the current primary reason Amsoil doesn't seek API certification for their diesel engine oils is due to the fact they won't LOWER some of the additive package contents required to meet that API certification, and bow to EPA and environmentalists demands that caused other refiners to alter additive package contents - regardless of potential wear-increasing tendencies those additive reductions might cause. If that proves to be true, my hat's off to Amsoil, and they would certainly be my first consideration for a synthetic in my Cummins...
I still can't quite bring myself to go the expense of synthetics in "normal" mileages - 7000 miles or less - but once my engine is broken in, and oil analysis is low enough in wear metals to justify it, I *could* see going to once a year changes using synthetic oil, and normal filter changes, which would be once for the stock full-flow, and about 3-4 changes for the Frantz - that, and the makeup oil COULD work out quite well, and not be much extra expense...
Now, don't beat on me TOO hard!
Gary,
As old as you are, and where you live, with Delo and a By-Pass, you will be throwing you childrens inheritence away on synthetic.
And you thought I was going to beat you up!
As old as you are, and where you live, with Delo and a By-Pass, you will be throwing you childrens inheritence away on synthetic.
And you thought I was going to beat you up!
"As old as you are, and where you live, with Delo and a By-Pass, you will be throwing you childrens inheritence away on synthetic. "
WELL, I didn't exactly tell the whole story... .
We're looking to take a LOOOONG RV trip this fall and winter, involving virtually a complete loop around the continental USA. During that trip, we'll undoubtedly encounter heat, cold, hills and similar stresses in excess of what we usually see in more local traveling and the seasons we usually do our RVing in - so the added protection of a good synthetic might be a good idea, just like my STP in the older truck after it was broken in...
Hopefully, my kids and grandkids would forgive me...
Keep in mind, I've never bashed or talked against synthetics - I think they're great - I just haven't been able to justify the added expense under our normal vehicle usage...
Maybe I can take up a collection, and all you Amsoil reps can contribute a quart each to my "project" to shut me up... :-laf :-laf :-laf
I can't be bought - but I *do* rent pretty cheap...
WELL, I didn't exactly tell the whole story... .
We're looking to take a LOOOONG RV trip this fall and winter, involving virtually a complete loop around the continental USA. During that trip, we'll undoubtedly encounter heat, cold, hills and similar stresses in excess of what we usually see in more local traveling and the seasons we usually do our RVing in - so the added protection of a good synthetic might be a good idea, just like my STP in the older truck after it was broken in...
Hopefully, my kids and grandkids would forgive me...
Keep in mind, I've never bashed or talked against synthetics - I think they're great - I just haven't been able to justify the added expense under our normal vehicle usage...
Maybe I can take up a collection, and all you Amsoil reps can contribute a quart each to my "project" to shut me up... :-laf :-laf :-laf
I can't be bought - but I *do* rent pretty cheap...
I can see it now- Flat tire-blame Amsoil
wife complaining blame Amsoil
windsheild wiper breaks- blame Amsoil
ROAD HOG!!!!! Blame Amsoil
not enough power, blame Amsoil
busted headlight- Blame Amsoil etc, etc
Sounds like a bad trip coming up for all of us Gary, maybe you should stick to the Delo!!!! LOL!!!!
wife complaining blame Amsoil
windsheild wiper breaks- blame Amsoil
ROAD HOG!!!!! Blame Amsoil
not enough power, blame Amsoil
busted headlight- Blame Amsoil etc, etc
Sounds like a bad trip coming up for all of us Gary, maybe you should stick to the Delo!!!!
LOL!!!!
Hey Gary, if you get down into the swamps and run low on oil, I'll have some cooking oil for ya to top off with. Oo.
I can't guarantee it below 65 degrees F, however so borrower beware. It's made by Amsoil, they need a sucker, oops (did I really say that) volunteer to test this in strenuous conditions. Your road trip sounds like the perfect scenario. Let me know if you're interested, I'll be anxiously waiting by the phone. :-laf
Oo. I can't guarantee it below 65 degrees F, however so borrower beware. It's made by Amsoil, they need a sucker, oops (did I really say that) volunteer to test this in strenuous conditions. Your road trip sounds like the perfect scenario. Let me know if you're interested, I'll be anxiously waiting by the phone. :-laf
"I can see it now- Flat tire-blame Amsoil
wife complaining blame Amsoil
windsheild wiper breaks- blame Amsoil
ROAD HOG!!!!! Blame Amsoil
not enough power, blame Amsoil
busted headlight- Blame Amsoil etc, etc'
HEY - if that sort of logic and reasoning works for the "service" managers in the DC dealerships when it comes to warranty work, why not ME?
wife complaining blame Amsoil
windsheild wiper breaks- blame Amsoil
ROAD HOG!!!!! Blame Amsoil
not enough power, blame Amsoil
busted headlight- Blame Amsoil etc, etc'
HEY - if that sort of logic and reasoning works for the "service" managers in the DC dealerships when it comes to warranty work, why not ME?
Where did he go anyway?I heard from him and he was happy in the Amsoil-free Zone Dont know the story but he seemed like a nice guy to me 
Gary, my truck came with a "void" sticker on the oil filler :-laf
WeirCummin showed his "void" sticker on the HOOD :-laf
Heck the way DC acts sometimes I'm surprised they dont put "void" stickers on the doors :-laf
Dont know the story but he seemed like a nice guy to me Gary, my truck came with a "void" sticker on the oil filler :-laf
WeirCummin showed his "void" sticker on the HOOD :-laf
Heck the way DC acts sometimes I'm surprised they dont put "void" stickers on the doors :-laf
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Don't give them any ideas. They're lurking about in stealth mode, monitoring everything we say and do.
Well my two cents worth. I run Amsoil in four pieces of equipment. A 1985 chevy caprice 305 4bbl,Dodge diesel,1998 Dodge 1500 slt 318,2000 New holland tractor. Its in them front to rear including wheel bearing greese and hyd. oil in tractor with a front end loader. Tractor holds 10 gallons of hyd. oil. Transmissions all shift smoother,tractor hyd. dont whine anymore and lift,brakes(wet)clutch(wet)all work better hot or cold. The 1985 Caprice gets 500miles a week commuting was bought with 84,000 and now has 180,000. It had a fairly dirty engine to start with. Crud in pcv,valve covers,valve springs etc. Used a quart of dino oil every 1500 miles. Swaped to Castrol syntech 10w30 and used a quart of oil every 1800 miles. Tried Amsoil a year later. Uses a quart of Amsoil 10w30 every 3100 miles. The pcv system now has no buildup,rockers and springs much cleaner now then when auto bought. I change filter(ac delco)every 7500 miles and oil every 20,000 or so. Wife gets 20. 5 to 22. 0mpg every tank. The 1998 Dodge with 318 magnum gets 6500 miles a year with 1 oil and filter a year now and starts in 20 degree weather after sitting a week or more with almost instant oil psi and no engine noise. Was changing oil before every 3 to 4 months reguardless of mileage. The 1993 Dodge Cumming oil has been in it 10,000 miles with filter at 6k. Just ordered a sample kit from Blackstone and curious to results. Will see. I feel like Amsoil has saved us much time and money and at least some piece of mind if they sit for extended periods or weather too nasty to get out there and change oil etc. I read Amsoil reports and have talked to their tech line several times. Gotta believe in some things some times. Their tech line guys keep saying no worries!
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