What fuel additives should I be using?

[kober]

I read about Diesel Kleen and other such fuel additives. Are they worth using or a waste of money?

 

[DBrickel]

I use Stanadine PF. It keeps injectors clean and seems to idle smoother. Don't know if it adds any zip but i'm happy with it. I've been running it for about 60000k

 

[DieselMinded]

REDLINE



There are 2 diffrent types of Additives Emulisfiers and Demulsifiers One Breaks down water particals and the other Joins them together ... . the theory is that when the water particals are bunched together the Fuel Filter / Water Seperator would catch it... . the problem is the Water Seperators on Dodges are not that efficient so you end up sending a glob of water all at once ,,,,,the Other Additive BReaks down water particals and they pass threw un notice with no problem,,,, Redline breaks Down ,,,, Stanadyne Clumps up.



From what I have learned on Fuel Additives



DM

 

[klenger]

I use Power Service from Wally World, mostly because it's easy to get and its pretty cheap.

 

[Crunch]

I read about Diesel Kleen and other such fuel additives. Are they worth using or a waste of money?

I used Howe's meaner power cleaner/anti-gel once last year when I was up North and it was below 20*. Other than that the only thing I've put in my tank has been #2 diesel fuel. 45,500 miles and no engine problems at all. Smooth idle with no engine ticks and no variance in power when accelerating. Never noticed water in the fuel either, and I check it every time I change the oil

 

[DavidC]

I use Power Service also with no ill effects. I am not sure if it is a coincidence or not but there is three guys at work with Duramaxes. Two of them do not use a fuel additive and have had the trucks in numerous times for injectors, the third runs Power Service and has alot more miles than the other two and has had no injector problems. All three are 2004 models.



Dave

 

[joaker]

I religiously use the Howes Lubricator mixed with the Howes Meaner power cleaner, presently at 214,xxx km's on the original VP-44... ... ... . seems like cheap insurance.

 

[rweis]

I use Stanadyne PF, but I also put a RACOR 690 with the T (10 micron) filter right as it comes out of the tank. The 690T is a fuel filter and water seperator.



Just an idea.



Bob Weis

 

[tschwab]

Stanadyne PF with every tank. It is cheap insurance. As far as the Emulsifier/Demulsifier debate goes, Stanadyne is a Demulsifier and clups the water into larger particulate so it will be caught by the water in fuel separator. Who says the water in fuel separator doesn't work? I have had a diesel since 1997 and have always used Stanadyne with no problems.



Stanadyne is the only fuel additive approved for use by several OEM's including GM, VW and I believe Ford. Dodge won't give it the thumbs up because Cummins makes their own additive.



Before you jump on the Emulsifier bandwagon, you should read the article in the link below, skip to the last segment titled "The Common Enemy" to see what I am talking about. Water, no matter how small should not be run through your fuel injection system.



http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=1240

 

[FourBarR]

howes meaner here now at 360000kms on original vp44. dont know if thats the reason for the long life. use it in every tank.

 

[KD7GYJ]

I have been using Diesel Kleen for the past two months. I have a 96 ounce bottle that I picked up at Walmart. At every fill up, I squirt some into the tank before I put in the fuel nozzle.



I have noticed the engine idles very smoothly. Prior to Diesel Kleen, it would idle somewhat rough, but when you shut it down and start the engine, it would idle smoothly, so it has been good to have. It doesn't take much, but it idles much better.



Give it a try, with your 04. 5, you will be amazed at how quiet and smooth running your engine will be.



Or try Stanadyne PF, I have that too and it works just great, but I was out of town and didn't have any so I purchased Diesel Kleen and it works just as nicely.



Blair

 

[rweis]

Let's see:



Remember the fuel system is a SYSTEM, not just Stanadyne, not just a RACOR, not just lines, not just fittings, not just a lp, not just a VP, etc.



Stanadyne PF is a DEmulsifier, put that in the tank.



RACOR 690T is a fuel filter that has a patented water seperation ability, put that as the FIRST thing in the fuel system right on the tank module engine fuel feed line.



DEmulsify the water, then filter the water out, before it ever gets a chance to get into the fuel delivery system.



Hummmmmmm



The Central FL TDR went to SouthEast Power Systems in Tampa a couple of years ago for a saturday meeting show and tell. The question came up about how to protect the VP to the best of our abilities. The answer was NO WATER!, EVER, PERIOD! Ok, how do we do that? The answer, Stanadyne in every tank to DEmulsify the water, and put a RACOR fuel / water seperator filter as the fuel comes out of the tank to trap it immediately.



They had some VP's that had water damage from pitting, extreme expansion pressures as the psi went up to 18k the water would become gas expanding multiple times over damaging internal VP components, cracking or breaking internal VP parts.



Seemed like a logical preventative measure - Stanadyne to get the water to DEmulsify, RACOR to then filter the water (and other particles) out. OEM ff never sees any water to absorbe and becomes a backup safety water filter.



In a thread I posted about a year ago I got a water loaded tank of fuel. I just drained the RACOR 690 about every hour or so and let it strip the water out.



Works for me.



Bob Weis

 

[bombero]

The best thing that ever happened to both gasoline and diesel is there are no longer un-monitered underground tanks. I can tell stories about water in fuel but I wont. I feel now unless it coming from the refinery with water it, we are not getting it at the pump. On all three of mine CTD ,when I changed the fuel filter I have never seen any sign of water. Anyway I am using a additive. Oh well wont be my first mistake. Jim

 

[Buffalo]

I attended a seminar by the local, Las Vegas, Bosch Fuel Injection Repair Facility (I'm sorry that I don't remember the gentleman's name or the name of the facility. I think it was J&S). They sell Stanadyne.



His talk was very interesting. California and the states receiving fuel refined in CA. are now getting Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel. In his opinion, it's absolutely necessary to add an additive that addresses additional lubricity. He has seen fuel injection systems hurt by the "new" fuels. He, also, mentioned that if you didn't want to use Stanadyne, by all means use "something".



One of the interesting things Bosch Headquarters has noticed is that, if you live near a large Air Force Base you need to be especially aware of the fact that the jet fuel is tested by the A. F. and if it does not meet the standards, it is distributed to the mass market (us) for use in our trucks. Jet fuel is extremely dry and it is supposed to be fortified with an additive before it can be sold as diesel. Apparently, sometimes it doesn't get enough of the additive or it doesn't get "mixed" properly and it is causing noticeable damage to fuel injection systems. Bosch Hqts. sent a notice to all it's dealers to be on the lookout for these problems. I found this very interesting.



If you choose Stanadyne as your additive and decide to use the Performance Formula, the big difference is the cetane booster. You might try it out and see if you get better fuel mileage. If not, the Performance JR. offers most of the benefits of the Performance Formula but, with out the cetane improver. The Performance JR goes twice as far and is cheaper, also. So, if you don't realize a power & mileage improvement the JR may be the answer for you.



If you are only interested in additional Lubricity, Stanadyne has a Lubricity Formula which may work well for you.



The emulsifying/demulsifying debate will probably go on forever. This is only my opinion but, it seems to me that if you had a storage tank with a drain at the bottom, a demulsifier would probably be the way to go. It would seperate the water and allow it to be drained off when needed. Since our trucks a bounced around a lot while driving it seems like the water would break up and suspend itself in the fuel until the truck is parked for quite awhile.

Maybe, breaking up the suspended water into very small particles, lubricating it and then sending it through the fuel delivery system (emulsifying)might be the way to go.



I live in Phoenix, AZ and have had diesels since 1981. I have never had a "water-in-fuel" related issue. Doesn't mean it can't happen, though. I've chosen to go with an additive that is an emulsifier because of my past experiences. Often the emulsifiers are more highly concentrated and go a lot further (treat more fuel per dose). It turns out to be more cost effective.



The bottom line is, that if you are getting ULSD, especially California fuel, it sure couldnt hurt to use, at the very least, a lubricity additive.



Once again, I've gotten awfully long-winded. I must have WAY too much time on my hands.



Thanks for your time.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[tURBOdIEZEl]

i run a 32 oz bottle of PS, 1/2 quart of marvel mystery oil, and a bottle of amsoil cetain booster to 35 gallons of fuel.....

 

[rweis]

"boil, boil, toil and trouble, fire burn and caldron bubble... ... . "



Bob Weis

 

[LightmanE300]

The emulsifying/demulsifying debate will probably go on forever. This is only my opinion but, it seems to me that if you had a storage tank with a drain at the bottom, a demulsifier would probably be the way to go. It would seperate the water and allow it to be drained off when needed. Since our trucks a bounced around a lot while driving it seems like the water would break up and suspend itself in the fuel until the truck is parked for quite awhile.

Maybe, breaking up the suspended water into very small particles, lubricating it and then sending it through the fuel delivery system (emulsifying)might be the way to go.

Joe F. (Buffalo)

You and Dieselminded have that right! Those that believe in Stanadyne and demulsification in vehicles are simply buying into their marketing and believing in the theory more than the reality. OEM and Aftermarket water separation only works on big slugs of free water. Ever wonder why there is never any water when you drain the fuel filter housing into a glass? Demulsifiers are great in static environments like a stationary tank with a bottom drain, but as vibration and motion are introduced as they are in a vehicle, their effectiveness is greatly reduced, as water does go back into suspension. It's a great concept in theory - to demulsify and have the water separator catch it, to stop water from ever passing through... it just doesn't work in reality for a few reasons. One because of what I said above, with the dynamic environment of a vehicle, and two because typical fuel does not have free water in it.



Guys, understand that all diesel fuel has water in it, typically 60-80ppm. Once that number gets around 115-120ppm, water will start to 'fall out' of suspension, and becomes 'free water'. Despite their claims, OEM and fancy aftermarket water separators do not filter out water smaller than 115ppm. I personally have verified this via laboratory testing on a variety of fuel filters, most noteably the OEM vw TDI separator/filter, and the Stanadyne Fuel Manager series of filters. We did before/after fuel analysis testing and the water was never substantially reduced (measured using Karl Fischer method), using Stanadyne's demulsifying additive for the test.



Therefore what folks need to do is decide if they want to use a fuel additive on a regular basis for the unlikely event of getting a bad tank full of free water, or if they want to use an additive that will make the small amounts of present water(less than 115ppm) safer to pass through, since it will do so inevitably. The reality is that additives only disperse their own volume of water (2oz additive only disperses 2oz water), so if you get a truly bad tank of water, the additives aren't gonna help either way, not to mention the fact that the separators typically will catch really large slugs of water.



There is a slight separation within the 'emulsifying' group of additives, between traditional emulsifiers and solubizers, but for the purpose of this discussion, we'll keep them together. The point is the same for the most part. Armed with the facts above, I run Redline and fill up at the same good quality fuel source every tank. Primrose, Redline, FPPF, and Power Service DFS are all in the 'emulsifying' group and work well.



Tschwab for the record Mercedes Benz endorses Redline fuel additive use, it's right in my E-class owner's manual.

 

[WyattEarp]

Some may frown some may smile, but i have used stanydine, Marvel MO, but my main source is Power service, I have never had the water in fuel light come on(does is work I don't know) in 103,000 miles, still original VP. Now i have used a little offroad also to offset this unlubricated highway diesel, I don't care what it is, something is better than nothing in your tank, read your manual these engines will burn just about anything especially the older high reving 12V's, the 24V i have will do the same but won't last without the lubrication properties, why did they change to a fuel lubricated pump i will never know .

But Just remember we all hail from different parts of the country, fuel consistency is different as well as how it is effected by the weather, from hot to cold to humidity, i think this may also play a role in why some diesel is better running than others.

EITHER WAY KEEP THEM CUMMINS ROLLING!!!! Oo.

 

[rweis]

Do the water ppm have a particle size?



There generally is some water in the RACOR sediment bowl. Not a lot, but some, a couple of drops. There is generally also some fine suspended particulate in the sediment bowl. The RACOR filter is a 10 micron. Why would there be water seperated?, or would it be the "free water" that has been seperated?



If "all" diesel has 60 - 80 ppm water, are the pumps / engines etc designed to function with that level of water? Are the higher concentrations 115-120 where water falls out where the damage takes place?



How does a fuel filter know the difference between 60 - 80 ppm and 115 - 120 ppm?, or does it only catch the "free water".



Interesting, I will have to send in a lab fuel sample for analysis with particularly close attention to water content.



Bob Weis

 

[LightmanE300]

Do the water ppm have a particle size?



There generally is some water in the RACOR sediment bowl. Not a lot, but some, a couple of drops. There is generally also some fine suspended particulate in the sediment bowl. The RACOR filter is a 10 micron. Why would there be water seperated?, or would it be the "free water" that has been seperated?



If "all" diesel has 60 - 80 ppm water, are the pumps / engines etc designed to function with that level of water? Are the higher concentrations 115-120 where water falls out where the damage takes place?



How does a fuel filter know the difference between 60 - 80 ppm and 115 - 120 ppm?, or does it only catch the "free water".



Interesting, I will have to send in a lab fuel sample for analysis with particularly close attention to water content.



Bob Weis

Bob those are some good questions. Yes the water you've found in your separator is free water that has been strained - if it were solubized/emulsified you would not be able to see it. Racor's media is among the best as far as aftermarket water separation is concerned... far better than OEM, but still won't really remove much if any emulsified water like they claim. Fuel filters realistically only catch free water- although many manufacturers will claim they remove emulsified and free water. When they say emulsified though, they are talking more accurately about 'suspended' water rather than emulsified/solubized. I emailed airdog and their response was that their systems would not be effective on water less than 115ppm. At least some manufacturers are realistic about the performance of their products.



Suspended water below 100ppm will pass through the fuel system without a problem. It's in all diesel fuel and has always been. I like using redline or primrose as it solubizes that water (dissolves it fully into the fuel) for an even more harmless passing through.



Bob about the cheapest place you can get fuel analysis testing done with the karl fischer water test is www.avlube.com . They sublet their work to a lab called predictive maintenance services, who does the testing. These fuel tests are around $50 and will tell you cetane index, water, specific gravity, ISO particulate/dirt content, etc. For those that are interested in fuel quality, it's a great way to find out which of your favorite local stations is serving up the good stuff. In testing two of local (at the time) sarasota, FL stations, both of which sell a LOT of diesel, I found one had SEVEN TIMES more particulate content per gal than the other station, with all other factors being similar. That was a worthwhile $100 I spent in testing knowing I'm not running liquid sandpaper thru my injectors !!