Competition What happens when you make more power than your drivetrain can tollerate.

[TurboTweaker]

Ted your the donkey. If you read it again he is talking about Mark Willams, not himself



The Fat Kid

Andy

 

[ob1kobi]

Andy,



You might be correct, now that I re-read the post maybe I did interpet it wrong. The difference is that I will apologize if I am wrong, and since it looks like I am, I apologize for calling you a donkey Greg.



Ted

 

[ob1kobi]

but Mark Williams is not a "pillar" of drag racing either...

 

[RacinDuallie]

Why is everyone so negative on Mark Williams parts? It would seem that the cause of these failures is an improper pinion angle, how could you expect a part NOT to fail when forced to operate in the right setup? ? ?

 

[ob1kobi]

I don't think to many are down on the Mark Williams parts, he does build some great stuff, I think sleddy was just making a point that alot of the gasser mentality that some try to use doesn't exactly apply to what we are trying to do.



We don't know that it was a pinion angle issue, even though it does look like it might have been, cause Lewis hasn't confirmed it. I am fairly confident that if it was, he will tell us.

 

[GWBourne]

Why is everyone so negative on Mark Williams parts? It would seem that the cause of these failures is an improper pinion angle, how could you expect a part NOT to fail when forced to operate in the right setup? ? ?

i am VERY new at the Performance Diesel deal, BUT i am not so new to drive shaft angles. my other ride is a 74 blazer with 24 inches of travel in the rear. you can have the strongest brand new U-joint in the rear but if the angle is off it might as well be a spicer greasable dana 30 joint.



the pictures to me look more like U-joint failure than drive shaft failure. i would not say the maker of the shaft is at fault, but the installer. check the angles at launch and durring down track situations. hell, install a camera and make some video of it. a couple cams would be good. one head on, one 3/4 and one direct on the side. put a ruler on the "pumpkin" as well. i would figure the data gained would be worth the fuel used. i also figure your suspension is moving more than you would like.



to me it looks like that is an off the shelf joint as well. why not a forged non greasable u-joint that is serviceable and rebuildable? thats an important part as everybody knows... a good place to spend some coin and maybe have some custom parts made.



i know high angle driveline (jesse is a GREAT guy to deal with) is always making more parts for rock crawling. i also know he as the tools and or connections needed to make some AWESOME parts. maybe contact him to see if he is interested.

grant

 

[Amish Elegance]

Preston, thanks for sharing the pic. Whatever the cause, I'm sure you're layin down some mean power. At your stage of the game, the hardest part is getting it to the ground. Thanks for your openness and willingness to show the challenges you face as you work towards your goal. The way you conduct yourself says alot about your team, and the professionalism you exhibit.



The part failure could very well be the result of a rear end setup that is not performing as expected. Leaving on "kill" for that truck unleashes some serious stress. I wouldn't go so far as to say it was an error in setup, or a poorly constructed part, just an expensive learning experience. Hopefully this discussion can generate some constructive ideas and remedies for your next go round if ya aint already there yet.



If Greg would have answered with some suggestions rather than calling down from a know it all position with his "superior" gasser mindset broadcast from a Napoleon Complex ridden mind, I think the thread could have stayed on track.



My professional buggy mushing opinion ( < . 02 cent)is that the joints grenaded under extreme diesel power and the yolk deviations and kink in the shaft happened after the fact. Ouch baby, very ouch.



That leaves the question, why did the joints go boom? Drive line angles? Wimpy joints? Defective joints? Too much ... ... ? Do tell. Save Gene some headaches on the Sled Racer project will ya?

 

[LPreston]

Keating is ABSOLUTE that the angle is correct. And for anyone that knows Keating, he has read, rearead, measured, remeasured everything. I'd put 100% faith in anything he has done personally.



On a side note for Mark Williams, the new retainers for the rear of the shaft worked perfectly. I don't think this is a quality issue, just that the truck is making more torque than, well, a lot of other stuff that might use these parts.



The truck was run for 2 seasons on Strange stuff that passed away this fall. We know the driveshaft did not fail... the joints did. Both snapped at the same time.



Diesel is a grey area for a lot of folks, myself included. Hell, I keep wanting to check sparks plugs as a force of habit... lol. There is a plan in the works. There may be another run to Steele Alabama next month to see if this is going to fly. We'll keep ya posted.

 

[GWBourne]

If Greg would have answered with some suggestions rather than calling down from a know it all position with his "superior" gasser mindset broadcast from a Napoleon Complex ridden mind, I think the thread could have stayed on track.



My professional buggy mushing opinion ( < . 02 cent)is that the joints grenaded under extreme diesel power and the yolk deviations and kink in the shaft happened after the fact. Ouch baby, very ouch.

i concur

Grant

 

[ob1kobi]

Thanks for the clarification Lewis.



Ted

 

[Timbeaux38]

Lewis, I'm not far from Steele, let us know if you go...

 

[Turbo Thom]

Yeah Lewis, let us all know. I'd like to see it run again.



And this issue brings up another one. Why is diesel power that much different than a 3000HP funny car? Is it weight, angles, different ways of applying power, locking different, just what is the difference. I understand gasser mentality with the engine is screwy, but the chassis should be the same. Or should it? What the difference?



. . PrestonL... ... ... My middle initial really is L. .

 

[JDailey]

Once again, The KING SLEDPULLER has spoken... ... so it must be true. I think ol Comp knows more than the rest of you put together. Sure he may come across as being in love with himself. But I guess that just puts him the same class Sledhumper(and some others). And all of the people I see talking **** about Comp are wannabe racers. So if you wanna talk it... walk it. Build a racer and beat him if you can! Cause he is on top right now.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Preston, thanks for sharing the pic. Whatever the cause, I'm sure you're layin down some mean power. At your stage of the game, the hardest part is getting it to the ground. Thanks for your openness and willingness to show the challenges you face as you work towards your goal. The way you conduct yourself says alot about your team, and the professionalism you exhibit.



The part failure could very well be the result of a rear end setup that is not performing as expected. Leaving on "kill" for that truck unleashes some serious stress. I wouldn't go so far as to say it was an error in setup, or a poorly constructed part, just an expensive learning experience. Hopefully this discussion can generate some constructive ideas and remedies for your next go round if ya aint already there yet.







?

Good post !





Maybe give ole Comp a lesson in professionalism sometime

 

[Sled Puller]

Hell, I keep wanting to check sparks plugs as a force of habit... lol. .

Just gotta check that color, eh? :-laf



Hey Daily, you know you agree with me, call me when you have accomplished anything worth noting besides gatemouthed keyboard pecking.

 

[MMcfall]

New guy to the forum but just wanted to add something to consider - From an engineering standpoint a foot pound of torque is a foot pound of torque no matter if it is from a gas, diesel, or turbine engine. I think the big difference is the rapidity that torque is applied. It would be interesting to see dyno charts of gas, and diesel drag engines and see how fast each one puts on the torque.

 

[Sled Puller]

I think the big difference is the rapidity that torque is applied. .

Bingo! Now try explaining that to a gasser guy.

We went through that with clutches 5 years ago, some never did get it.

 

[COMP461]

Your never get it sleddie , power is power , as for clutches the lack of Rpms to get any kind of centrifugal counter in makes it hard to make a clutch work the weigh its intended , to transition from 100 % slip to 100 % lock up in the proper amount of time



This damage is no doubt to suspension misalignment , but Ill quit trying to educate people an let them break things , I just want set by and watch some one get hurt . sleddie you have nothing better to do then try and hijack ever post that I lend knowledge to , I have a lot of experience in chassis drag racing , and with motors that would dwarf your so called pulling diesels in the torque department , but you keep entertaining people with you non knowledge post , and attack on any one that knows any thing . And I’ll keep writing the truth, unless you have some legitimacy, Sleddie care to lend you omnipotent knowledge to extrapolate the cause of this potential catastrophic failure of a drive line component. A failure like this might get some one killed, or a bystander injure. But you infinite knowledge of the basic of drag racing should help solve this dilemma.



Just because is measures right , there are many more factors to conceder in figuring pinion angle , and the proper negative pinion angle to put in play to assure that everything is right when the load is applied ,and everything is tweaked .



I did try to help, even offering the help my chassis expert, and team mate Charlie Stewart who’s many years of Pro Mod experience, took 30 seconds after looking at the picture to tell me the problem and the solution, and offered to explain the method to setting pinion angle

 

[Sled Puller]

Greg, why are you always picking on me? I'm just trying to help.

 

[Cooker]

Greg, why are you always picking on me? I'm just trying to help.

Now that's funny :-laf