What if they found Noah's Ark, would it change your faith?

[Sled Puller]

. with a few exceptions that I am convicted of, but can't seem to let go. (Music, speeding, sometimes Language, and misc. others. )





Merrick

... dating younger women... WAYYYYYyounger women!!!!

 

[MCummings]

... dating younger women... WAYYYYYyounger women!!!!

Only once though



Merrick

 

[tractorface]

Hard to communicate via e-mail

Obviously I have a hard time expressing myself via e-mail. For the record, I have a great deal of respect for the views of both Lpearson(sp) and MCummings. Sounded like I was bashing you but I really was just trying to express my "open minded" philosophy. Really don't want to get caught up in definitions. I have intentionally tried to keep my beliefs hidden for the sake of discussion as well as the fact that I am always searching for the truth. Too many folks try and bend the facts to fit their beliefs, when it should be the facts that shape your beliefs.

At this point in my life I think it is an unfortunate fact that the Muslims have placed themselves in a position of needing to be eliminated. For the most part people are people, but when you place yourself in a group that calls for the destruction of anyone that does not think like you well... ... ... .



That is why I like to point out the problems with Blind loyalty.



I particularly enjoy reading about the worshiping rituals of the American Indians. There is definetly more to this world than meets the eye. Some of the anger in my comments is due to my expierience with folks who use Christianity as a way to vindicate their actions. Have had too much expierience with "leaders" leaning on religion but not living what they preach, for the purpose of monetary gains. They truly believe they are right and just when it is obvious they are not..... frustrating to be part of that for the last several years. I see it on a daily basis, I'll leave it at that. Some of what I read here sounds exactly like what I hear from these folks, the difference is not in the words but in the actions of these folks. Sorry for being long winded but I feel I was not clear before.

I guess you could say that a "thirst for knowledge" is my religion. I find things in Nature move me the most spiritualy.

 

[crobertson1]

tractorface,



I agree that when men or humans get involved with something, it's not long before egos or greed or pride or whatever else there is, gets in the way and messes things up. There are so many people who are turned off by Christianity because of man's nature.



What's important is to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Having a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with Jesus is what it's all about. I wish I could put into words the peace, joy, hope and happiness that comes from knowing Him. We as Christians are a microcosm of society, in that we have baggage too. We are fallible, disgusting, creatures who are loved by Jesus more than can be explained. You are too. The "leaders" that screw things up are too. As we continue in our walk with Christ, He gently, gradually shapes us into His image. That helps us to be more forgiving when it comes to other's shortcomings. It's like the grace He shows us when we don't deserve it. It's amazing. It's awesome. It is the Truth.

 

[tractorface]

Crobertson1,

Very well said.

Thanks

 

[Mike Ellis]

tractorface,



I never feel closer to God than when I am outdoors in the wild, enjoying the majesty of His Creation. I am not much of a "people person", I do not like crowds and much prefer solitude for comtemplation. When I was a boy, church was torture for me because our church had a large picture window and during the service I had to sit rock-solid-still or Dad would thump heck out of my ear (kaaaa-RACK!). So I would sit there and listen to the preacher drone on, and stare out the window miserably longing to be outside. I never knew what was going on. Where was "a dull tree" located, and why was the preacher always trying to keep people from climbing it? Why was wearing shorts sinful if you were at Church camp, but not if you were at school in gym? Why did the preacher read a passage about Jesus turning water into wine one day, and then rail about drinking the next? What was a tithe - like a sabre-toothed tither? Why were Methodists and those Piscopal folks going to the lake of fire? Why did my ear hurt so much?



I disliked the experience so intensely that when I grew up, I went many years without ever entering a church again. Interestingly enough, my faith grew much stronger in the intervening years as I learned more on my own, like you mentioned I looked at other religions and tried to understand "where the truth was" so to speak.



Eventually, the thing that struck me about many of them was how they shared some of the basic teachings (kindness, compassion, love) but appeared to be set up out of self-interest - just about every one was wrapped around a 'professional priesthood' that lives off the faithful. The Biblical accounts of Jesus and his Apostles are strikingly different - they spread their message with no agenda of personal gain, facing huge risk and hardship to do so. Their message was not one of division, of control, or of hatred - Jesus directly defied the existing religious dogma of the Jewish faith and said that God's word was for ALL mankind. This was again a significant departure from the "average" religion in that His message contained no "chosen people", no call for ethnic strife, no death to the infidels, no buying your way into Heaven. Just a simple, direct message - "Believe in me. " - open for anyone, anytime, anywhere.



Over the years I had become cynical in the extreme, so I pondered this for a long time. "What was His angle?" I wondered. It became evident, that there WAS no angle. Jesus and His apostles spread the new message out of love, not greed, self interest, thirst for power/control, or anything else. The message of Jesus turned out, in fact, to be the only true example of "something for nothing" that I had ever found. I was drawn back to the Bible, and reading through the New Testament again I finally "got it", after years of looking for truth I found that it had been with me all along.



Jesus is there for us all. He'll be there waiting for you, anytime you want to talk to Him. You don't need a preacher, or a choir, or a pew, or Potluck Dinner committee - He is your personal Savior, and you can talk to Him anytime, anywhere, anyway you want to - walking outdoors, playing music, helping others, just looking into the eyes of a child. He will always be there, and His relationship with you will never falter even when some of His followers disappoint you in the extreme.



Took me a long time to learn that, some folks figure it out when they are children but like my Dad says, "Mike has a knack for doing things the hard way. "

 

[E7mack96]

Mike,



That was a great post.





I agree with you. My family (wife & kids ) goes to her family church every sunday. Mostly to socialize, but to also worship. I usually don't go. I cannot stay awake at church. The sermons sometimes bore me to tears. I do try to think through what is said though. I feel that I do not have to go to "church" to believe in the Lord. I communicate with him in my way, which usually is when I am alone here at work, or on the road, or even when I am outside and become overwhelmed by the beauty of our world.



My wife thinks that my relationship with God is lacking, but I think it is pretty good because He is inside me, not out where she sees Him.

 

[lpearson]

Some of the anger in my comments is due to my expierience with folks who use Christianity as a way to vindicate their actions. Have had too much expierience with "leaders" leaning on religion but not living what they preach, for the purpose of monetary gains. They truly believe they are right and just when it is obvious they are not..... frustrating to be part of that for the last several years.

Thanks for the post.



There are way to many hypocrites in the 'Worldly' Christian Church that say one thing and do another. Jesus was persecuted for pointing this out to the religious folks of his day, and for that they wanted to Kill him--and did.



So if Jesus, Paul or the other apostles were here today they would have the same view as you do about these types of religious leaders.



I would like to encourage you to give Jesus a try (not men). When I was searching for "Truth" in the world, I looked at a lot of different things. Then, when at school, a group of Christian Atheletes came and gave their testimonies. I told God I would give him a try, BUT if he let me down just one time or if he lied to me Just ONCE I would never come back, and I meant it. I, just like you was burnt out on Church and their leaders and was getting absolutely nothing from going to Church. Like someone said, it was more like a social gathering, money grubbing thing than going for TRUTH.



Well, that was over 33 years ago and God has NEVER let me down, His Word is true, He will never leave you, nor forsake you, ---he will be with you to the end of the World. (What a Promise!)



This may be different from others, but from my studies, I would recommend that you (slowly and diligently) read the gospel of Luke (from the KJV, Authorized Version , other versions have deleted and changed the original text), there you will get a wonderful picture of Jesus and how he relates to man. -------------Then the Book of Romans (both are small and can be read in a short amount of time). Let God show you his wonders and his truth, ask and he will.



From there it's up to you how far you wish to go for your quest for Truth (as the Bible has an answer for everything on this earth, just got to know where to look). This forum has a lot of Christians that won't force and don't have any other agenda than just wanting to help. Mike Ellis, MCummings, CRobertson1, Hohn just to name a few (and there are others).



God Bless,

Lowell