what is a "Christian" ?

[lizzyhermit]

Another chain deviated into a discussion of the origin of holidays and the term "Christian" was being discussed. So, what is a "Christian"?



My dictionary defines as "having the qualities taught by Jesus, as love, kindness, etc. "



But that seems to conflict with another definition that states "of or professing the religion based on the teachings of Jesus".



I would suggest that there are many things done in the name of Christian Religion that are very far from the teachings of Jesus, hence "being a "Christian".

 

[Koa Man]

Originally posted by lizzyhermit

I would suggest that there are many things done in the name of Christian Religion that are very far from the teachings of Jesus, hence "being a "Christian".

You are right. That is because they are NOT following the teachings of Christ. Jesus made an interesting statement in Matt. 7:21-23. It basically says there, Many will say to me on that day Lord, Lord but will not enter the kingdom, but those doing the will of my Father will. They will say, but Lord, did we not perform many powerful works in your name? I will say to them, I never knew you. Get away from me you workers of lawlessness.

 

[lpearson]

Quite simple actually.

Believers of Christ were first called Christians (or Christ ones) at Antioch. Since Jesus's name means Saviour, and Christ means the anointed one or in the Hebrew the Messiah; people who believe that he paid the price for their sins and gave them eternal life by dying for them on the cross = are Christians.



"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" (Romans 10:9-10)



"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. " (John 3:17-18)



There are more scriptural doctrines associated with this, but one thing bares bring up. Just because someone believes in Jesus Chirst doesn't mean that he's not a hypocrite or doesn't do ungodly things. Belief just means Salvation from a Devils Hell and Eternal Lake of Fire.



Once someone believes they are a babe in Christ (reborn spiritually) and don't know and or doesn't live the doctrines outline for the church.



Scripture speaks of Carnal Christians, backslidden Christians, lustful Christians and so on. They are still Christains but haven't grown into the fullness of Christ. -----



Regards,

Lowell

 

[klenger]

lpearson's comments are right on.

 

[lizzyhermit]

Re: Quite simple actually.

so someone could be called a Christian because they know and understand the sacrifice given by Jesus and yet still be a hypocrite displaying qualities condemed by Jesus ?

Originally posted by lpearson

Believers of Christ were first called Christians (or Christ ones) at Antioch. Since Jesus's name means Saviour, and Christ means the anointed one or in the Hebrew the Messiah; people who believe that he paid the price for their sins and gave them eternal life by dying for them on the cross = are Christians.





Once someone believes they are a babe in Christ (reborn spiritually) and don't know and or doesn't live the doctrines outline for the church.



Regards,

Lowell

also, what's the last sentence mean? i can't follow it...

 

[RustyJC]

And now begins the "works versus grace" debate... .



Rusty

 

[lizzyhermit]

not really Rusty, I just find in amazing that someone hypocritically can call themself a "Christian" and purposely ignore the Chrsit like qualities that are so necessary in their lives. (Ga. 5:22,23).



As Koa Man so aptly pointed out earlier, just sayin' it don't carry much weight... this all started with two recent posts concerning someone's illness being "willed" by God and today's concerning "Christians" celebrating holidays of Pagan origin.



In my very humble opinion there is a very marked difference between erroring and purposely ignoring.

 

[RustyJC]

Speaking solely for myself, I find that I need to spend far more time keeping the beams plucked from my eyes than running around looking for splinters in the eyes of others.



Rusty

 

[lizzyhermit]

good point about beams and splinters. enough whining about others.....

 

[nickleinonen]

i use to go to church regularly and when i was a little younger, i went out to the church orgnized youth things they had. i never fit in though there. in my mid to late teens, i was like many other teen very depressed and i kept going there thinking they will accept me and i won't be depressed anymore [suicidal at points ] well they did nothing for me. i was always shunned away because i was not part of the "in" crowd there. well, i stopped going because it was not conveinent for me, and my depression ended right along with that. it may not be with other churches, but the people that go to my former church are all backstabbing gossiping pinheads as far as i am conserned. i went back there once like 6 months after leaving, and i could see right away why i left... everyone there was two faced. in a group there they were one person, by themselves not at the church, they were completely different. now, i swear, i do lye sometimes, i cheat sometimes. do i believe in christianity, yes i do. do i believe that jesus was the earthly son of god, yes i do. do i believe in god, yes i do. i have experienced things that could only be explained by the existance of god. do i want to go to church. yes/no. not to my church, or any church that preaches that if you don't do this or that, you are going straight to hell. living with those burdens i had made my life on earth a living hell. why on earth do i want to re-live that again.

 

[lpearson]

Re: Re: Quite simple actually.

Originally posted by lizzyhermit

so someone could be called a Christian because they know and understand the sacrifice given by Jesus and yet still be a hypocrite displaying qualities condemed by Jesus ?







also, what's the last sentence mean? i can't follow it...

Exactly,



The thief on the cross next to Jesus lived a worldly and evil life right up to his death, but when he believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, Jesus accepted him, saved him and took him to paradise at his death.



In the natural a new born baby has no understanding of the world around them, they will go out into traffic, eat poison, break things and so on as they get older and are taught by a loving parent they learn what's right and wrong. This is a generalization, but I hope you get the idea.



In a sence it's the same for a new born spiritual creation, after salvation they don't grow up and know things without being taught. There are many scriptures leading one to grow up, quit being carnal, and mortify the deeds of the flesh and LIVE according to the Gospel found in the New Testiment.



One of my pet pieves is that their are many wolves in sheep clothing wasting the flock with wrong teachings and doctrines. People go to Churches but they don't bring their Bibles to check out if the preacher is scriptural or not; Students going to school bring their books, so why not bring a Bible to church? Why don't people just follow the Bible as the Final Authority, if they did we wouldn't have so many different flavors of so called Christianity and so much hypocrisy in the churchs.



God had the Apostle Paul write some 13 epistles in the New Testiment mostly exhorting Christians to change from their worldly ways and Live Godly. Why would he have those scriptures if every Christian was perfect? They aren't, I'm not and I assume you're not either. In fact I don't know a Christian that is.



Again, to be saved is simple, "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. " Period!!!!!

Acts 16:30-31.



God wants more of us that just to save us, he wants us to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour and to live Godly as taught in the scriptures; and that's why the rest of the New Testament is written after the four gospels.



Corinthians was written to the Christian Church in Corinth because of so much sexual immorality; there also was gluttony and drunkeness at the Lord's table during Communion.



Galatians was written to expose Judizers who were bringing in doctrines contrary to the Grace message of the Church. These were saying that you needed to keep the laws of Moses and be circumcisied to be saved. If we could keep the laws of Moses some 613 of them; Why then did Jesus come and die for us? It was impossible for man to live justly by law keeping, so Jesus came and fufilled the laws of Mose for us and vicariously gave us his righteousness as he took our failures and sins to the cross.



There are more examples, but I hope I answered the question.



Regards,

Lowell

 

[Steve M]

Me too Nick, I don't like to be preached to non-stop of how "unworthy" I am, how my "lost' soul needs to be saved, and how much it'll cost at the end of the sermon. Let alone the hate that is taught from the time small children are sent to Sunday school for anyone who is different or of another faith. Since I was a teenager, I've poked my head in church a couple of times. The last time was in Pensacola for my wife's granddaughter's's Christmas play. That lasted a few minutes and then the rev took the opportunity to point out our flaws for an hour and a half. I'm aware of my flaws. I have a wife to remind me daily. I don't need some loudmouth obese hypocrite yelling at me along with the others about how unworthy I am. So I took the opportunity to take my wife's grandson out in the yard to collect acorns and enjoy what God created. What the fat man inside was creating was depressing as all hell. It's no wonder so much of our country's youth rebels.

FWIW, the Bible says men are supposed to bare the tops of their heads as in nature. So get out the razors Christian men and give us the Bozo-do. Long flowing hair is the glory of a woman. So lay off the expensive butch hair-do's ladies and let it grow. And gluttony is a sin. Ya might want to slim down a little before ya preach to me about my appearance. I can see Aunt Ester raggin on Fred now...

 

[Wayne M.]

I am a Christian, and I read my bible more than I actually go to Church-I wish I could get there more often. I think everyones answers are in the Bible if you have the patience to find what you are looking for.

I like to think of my Bible as the shop manual to my life. When I tackle a problem with my truck (not many!) I hit the factory book. I do the same with the other book when I have to search for me.

I think this is a great post, and to those people who haven't found a church they're happy with, keep looking and don't give up, hearing a good sermon or reading can do wonders.

 

[baby.driver]

Jesus is my Lord and Savior

but I avoid churches like the plague.

 

[jwoelfle]

I'll have to agree with WayneM. I was raised in the Catholic church. Couldn't stand it. Went all the way thru grade school and high school with nuns wacking the crap out of me with a ruler I got away from the church for a long time and floundered thru life like so many others. I hated church... I hated what it stood for(eternal damnation the way I was living)... I hated the way church people treated me. Then I started working at a small country church doing their sound/electrical work. My "wife-at-the-time" grew up in that church and they needed help. Still couldn't really stand it... didn't do a thing for me. Then we got divorced 7 years later... a month before Thanksgiving. Remember, my ex grew up from a little girl in that church. I can't count how many of the "veteran" members took the time to talk to me and ask me if I had a place to go for Thanksgiving and invited me into their homes as family. This was the start of my walk with God. Remember, I was the outsider... the motorcycle-riding long haired beer drinker and they welcomed me in to their homes. It was a turning point for me... it still took a while for me to accept Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, but this was the event that set me in motion.



I guess this is my long-winded way of telling you guys that are christians but don't like church or church people, KEEP LOOKING. Go visit different churches. Don't get all caught up in the denomination stuff... just go. Pick them out of the phone book if you want. The point is to keep visiting until you find a place you like. Try the smaller country churches... chances are your CTD won't be the only one in the parking lot

 

[patrobertson]

Intersting

As I read some of these post it saddens and makes me angry, I grew up in a Christian home with a dad in full time ministry with Inner City, kids, drug addicts, abused and rejcected women and I went to church but when I got older it was my choice, my parents never forced me, and even though I grew up in a Christian family God really grabbed a hold of my life at about 18 after my little world came down, and my perspective grew. But what upsets me is that so many churches are not what Jesus taught, and it sad but true, there is no accountability and no real growth. Biblically speaking you had 12 guys, who were sinners to the core but slowly grew from young christians to mature christians, there is change, but its a process in one way or other, as said "growing in Grace"

So I am sorry for some of the experiences that people have had, life sucks at times, and humans will be humans. I go to a larger chuch (for Utah) and people will be people and its annoying and frustrating sometimes, but the other people that want to grow and that I grow with make it all clear. I have known a few saintly men, and they were all very old, with lots of lessons under their belts, many the hard way, but we all mess up, Paul said "I am chief of sinners" so I don't feel so bad. And if I still don't get it I go read Romans 7 and 8, talks about some of the problems with sin and how we struggle with our spiritual beings and our "earthly flesh". Keep up the good posts.



Shane

 

[lizzyhermit]

yup, keep looking. Paul wrote to the Hebrew congration (10:24,25) that we should congregate, upbuild and encourage.



And I like the thought posted earlier about taking your handbook with you. If non-Biblical postions are condoned, supported or encouraged you will have a decsion to make.



As Paul wrote Titus (1:16), some say but don't do. And Matthew recorded (7:20) we'd know the difference.



As the term "caucasean" indicates someone meeting certain characteristics, I would contend that the term "christian" would indicate someone that displays the characteristics of Christ, not just someone who recognizes the value of His sacrifice.

 

[Doc Tinker]

The best church service I ever sat through was in a row boat in the middle of a lake in northern Ontario with a fishing pole in my hand. Nothing like spending some quite reflective time in God's great wilderness.



Doc

 

[crobertson1]

I know what some of you guys mean about certain churches and the people inside. There are a lot of people who consider themselves to be "Christian" but really are'nt. Thats what keeps my little brother away from faith in Jesus. Too many people walk out of the church they attend on Sunday, and forget everything they just heard, if they were even paying attention. I try very hard to be Christ-like, in every thing I do. I'm human though and make mistakes like EVERYONE does. There has only been ONE perfect and sinless man ever, Jesus. Please don't throw all Christians into the same basket with the "spoiled" ones. Its so important to find a Bible based church you feel at home in and fellowship with others. I heard it said that the single greatest cause of atheism in the world today, is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. We have to live our lives for Christ every minute of the day or we risk alienating more people. Craig

 

[lpearson]

Sad State of events

I too am sad to see all those who were searching and wanting to know about Jesus and Christianity "Turned Off" by most Churches of today. It wasnt' suppose to be that way.



Scripture does indicate that there will be a time when people will not endure sound doctrines, but will turn unto fables.



A time when there will be a "Falling away" (from the true). This just isn't an American thing it's all over the world. Phoneys,

money grubbing wolves in sheep clothing, liars and the like. They really don't care about you and your spiritual needs, they're in it for the money, power and fame (some are in it for the women).



I do know of a little church where the pastor works other jobs to support his family; They don't even have a collection plate and never have ever asked anyone for a dime. They believe church is for spiritual growth, not for money grubbing and empire building and will not compromise what the Bible says even though some may walk out because it steps on their toes.



People do give to this little church if they want, but the pastor doesn't take any of the money. They believe that the church should give to those in need; widows with children, those in poverty, homeless, sick and generally any type of need that they believe God would have them respond to.



I know that the larger a church gets the more duties a pastor would have, and so he wouldn't be able to work apart from the church, but this doesn't give him the right to abuse or fleece the flock.



There are some Godly people and some good Churchs out there, howbeit, not many. I too say with others don't give up on Christ because of what some people in certain Churchs do. Remember Christ didn't do it, they did.



Regards,

Lowell