When is the aftermarket...

[BIGNASTY]

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I never touched a word of his english!!!!!! Chris

And SOME Ya Can have fun with, without coming to Verbal atrocities being batted back and forth :-laf

Others, Not so much

 

[Killgore]

You old goat! You sure are gettin mild-mannered in your old age. :-laf
- Ed

 

[BIGNASTY]

You old goat! You sure are gettin mild-mannered in your old age. :-laf
- Ed

I know im heading out to So Calif in the AM don't want to take any bad habits with me that might get me into trouble out that way, I really would hate to have my *** kicked by some girl out there.

 

[SnoKing]

I know im heading out to So Calif in the AM don't want to take any bad habits with me that might get me into trouble out that way, I really would hate to have my *** kicked by some girl out there.

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One has to watch those girl mules! Chris

 

[SnoKing]

Who is going to get this? #ad

 

[JR]

If we're getting technical, engines with injection pumps don't have "injectors". They have nozzles. And I'm aware of how HPCR systems operate. HPCR systems are built to much closer tolerances than pump-nozzle system, and the multiple injection events (pilot injection) actually make life easier on the injector, not harder. The business end of an HPCR injector is actually subjected to a pretty ideal situation in that respect. HPCR engine controls can control engine temperature and load and keep cylinder pressures in check and engine temperature correct all the time. Compared to a pump-nozzle engine where the engine can be overcooled and loaded up with fuel and coat the nozzle tips with carbon. The fuel entering an HPCR system is also filtered to a much higher level than what an injection pump gets. 10-micron primary and 2-micron final filtration is pretty standard these days. And of course an HPCR system can self-prime after a filter change or being ran out of fuel, so there's much less dry cranking trying to get the engine to fire compared to pump/nozzle engines. Personally, I think 400.000 on an HPCR engine is to be expected and 400,000 on a pump/nozzle system is doing pretty good. If you know of any other 400,000-mile Cummins Dodges with the original nozzles in them let me know.

I know of a handful of 1st and 2nd gen Dodges with over 400k on original injectors. My former 00 had 380k on it when I sold it and it now has over 420k.
I have never seen an HPCR engine that the same can be said for. Dodge is probably the main culprit for that, they did not believe in adequate filtration up until the most recent MY trucks. Even with adequate filtration they are still prone to faster wear (multiple injections per cycle) and are much less tolerable to minute amounts of water/contaminants being passed through the fuel system

 

[Killgore]

Have a good, safe trip, young man. I'm leaving here for the Redneck Riviera (Gulf Coast) in about two hours to over do it on oysters and shrimp. - Ed

 

[BIGNASTY]

#ad
One has to watch those girl mules! Chris

Glad you said that, I call them all Princess out there even the guy's cause one NEVER KNOWS!!!

 

[BIGNASTY]

Have a good, safe trip, young man. I'm leaving here for the Redneck Riviera (Gulf Coast) in about two hours to over do it on oysters and shrimp. - Ed

We are going to pick up a Toyota truck, the used ones they have around here are so trashed after a couple of years they aren't worth looking at, So Calif has some really nice ones that have very low miles.

And at the same time take a young man that has been living with us while his Dad Re-hab's to all the amusement parks during his spring break off from school, then up the coast to OR, WA and then home.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Have a good, safe trip, young man. I'm leaving here for the Redneck Riviera (Gulf Coast) in about two hours to over do it on oysters and shrimp. - Ed

Blow the foam off a few with those shrimp, they go down better that way!!!

 

[Killgore]

Amen and Hallelujah!

 

[BIGNASTY]

For me, I cant wait ta get down with some Great Mexican food, and a few Cerveza's.
Really the only thing I miss about Calif is the Mexican food.

 

[Wayne M.]

Ed, you worked for Dickey John?!?! Until a while ago, we used them for salt dispensing devices.

CJ, it looks like Deere uses Stanadyne as a fuel system supplier. Can you confirm or deny?

I believe the low pressure pump/nozzles are more tolerant than HPCR systems when it comes to contaminants, and for that reason, the life expectancy is less when dealing HPCR.

Ford and Navistar believe in fuel cooling. Their system on the 6.4 is quite complex!

I'm not buying the cool fuel deal. I think it's impossible to get a handle on temps by cooling the fuel at the filter. The fuel will be at hi temp at nozzle regardless of how cool it is before the engine. I do buy the power gain theory though.

 

[CPH]

Speaking about Fass/Airdog....What about air in the fuel and it's effects? I wonder if this is as important as it is made out to be?

cph

 

[CM_Guest]

In my humble opinion, they pretty much pulled that "air in the fuel" thing right out of their tailpipes for one simple reason - everyone knows that air in your fuel system is bad. It can keep your engine from running, after all. And if a LOT of air prevents the engine from running entirely, then even a LITTLE air must have negative effects. Of course that's just one of the "advantages" of their units. THAT one appeals to guys who are interested in PERFORMANCE. The dual filters and water separator appeal to guys that are concerned with RELIABILITY. And the big electric transfer pump appeals to guys that are scared of starving their VP44s of fuel if the factory pump fails. And of course the LOCATION appeals to EVERYONE that fights the stock fuel filter location during changes. Those pumps just have something for everyone, don't they? And no doubt if you put one on a USED truck, you're GOING to notice a power increase and maybe a mileage increase. Especially guys that have neglected their fuel systems so long that they're having performance/economy (they're really the same thing) issues that they may not even be aware of. Or if they DO know they've got a problem and they're looking for an easy $550 fix rather than a hard $1000-$3000 fix. They may be buying a $550 pump and spending more money or time to install it and are hacking up their factory fuel system to do it, but I'm SURE those guys are going to notice a bigger difference. They probably had a half-plugged filter, a weak transfer pump and possibly even some air leaks in their supply system. And an hour and $150 may have fixed it, but now they "fixed" all those "flaws" in the factory fuel system. But it all boils down to low supply fuel pressure. I guess my question for the FASS/AirDog folks would be to explain how 4wd tractors can pull their fuel vertically 4 feet or more and then 8 or 10 feet forward to the engine through all that line and with near-empty fuel tanks and still run fine. Bouncing across a field, no less. If our fuel we get is so lousy with air. Oddly enough, stock trucks with the stock fuel system in good condition can make MORE than their rated FLYWHEEL hp at the REAR WHEELS, so apparently that air doesn't affect them that badly either. I'll have to do some more research and learn where they're "putting" that air. But I think I've got an idea what phenomenon they're using to "demonstrate" how much air fuel has in it.

 

[SnoKing]

I am really surprised how I have been able to keep my old 2001.5 running for the last 13 years without all this new enlightenment that you are bringing forth. I am sure that others are equally surprise that we have been able to keep them rattling down the road.

Maybe they will let you write articles for the TDR Mag. Chris

 

[CPH]

OK then. Let me run this by you. As you can see in my profile, I have a 97. I am the original owner (have just crossed the 250,00 mile mark). As you may or may not know the fuel filter canister is a pain in the can. Mine has started to leak around the valve that you use drain the water out of the canister. (Yes I actually do routine maintenance). A replacement is next to impossible to find. The ones I have found are used and expensive (hundreds of dollars). My thought is if I have to spend lots-o-bucks I could use the genoe's 96 ram filter/separator change or do the Fass/Airdog route. I figured better fuel processing would be the way to go. Not worried about making drag horsepower. Just want to keep it running as long as I live. Figured no air is better than some air. What say you all? Getting ready for the summer tow camper season and want to make my decision soon.looking for input.

cph

 

[CPH]

Meant to say 250,000 miles.

cph

 

[CM_Guest]

I've done magazine articles. 3 or 4 of them for Tractor Shop a long time ago. It wasn't worth what it paid. I worked hard to try to pass along a little information about something I know pretty well and the only responses I'd get were from people complaining I'd wasted their time because they already knew or didn't need to know what I wrote.

 

[CM_Guest]

The only problems I've ever had with air in a fuel system were when there was a leak in the fuel system to let it in. As for whatever air they claim is automatically present in diesel fuel being a problem, that's never been my experience. It seems like there were millions of diesel engines running just fine at all levels of horsepower and performance in every application imaginable with no problems before they came along. And there's still millions of diesel engines doing the exact same thing SINCE they've came along. Fuel is light oil. It's pretty hard to aerate. I'm not telling you NOT to buy one. If that's what you want and it can solve multiple problems for you, that's great. I just think the whole fuel/air separation thing is pretty hokey. I work on John Deere equipment and a LOT of Deere machines and engines use the old standy square Stanadyne filters. Some use on and some use too. You can get those filters that are made of glass so you can see the filter material. Even with the fuel system bled and the engine running, you'll see air space in there and even a fuel bubbles. It doesn't seem to hurt a thing. I mentioned that diesel fuel is oil, and it is. But it's a LOT heavier than air and it's thin and slick enough that it doesn't stay aerated for long. Slosh some around in a pop bottle and see how long it takes after your stop shaking for the fuel to be clear with no bubbles. I think they use the air separation angle just because anybody that knows anything about diesels know they don't tolerate air in the fuel system. And I imagine some people assume that since they built a fuel/air separator there MUST be some air in the fuel. So it looks like a good deal to them, they slap it on an older truck, it jacks their supply pressure up and all of a sudden the truck runs a lot better. So it must be getting the air out. That's cool. If they're happy, good. I guess there IS a scenario where you can get pretty low power on a Cummins Dodge and if you check return flow from the injector pump for air you WILL find some. And that's if your lift pump has a leaking diaphragm or an air leak at the suction side fitting that's allowing it to suck air. In that situation air in the fuel IS costing you power and causing the engine to run badly. But that's a different situation than they show in their diagrams where they show the tank full of air bubbles and air bubbles all the way to their pump and then they're just GONE. My main dislike about a FASS or AirDog is the location. I don't like the idea of having a fuel pump and filters hangning down there. On a highway truck it's probably fine. But I do a lot of driving on rock, gravel and dirt roads and they salt the hell out of our roads in the winter. If they had a system that would mount under the hood, I'd probably be a buyer. If not, I'll just have to build my own.