Why are 4.10 gears offered?

[NIsaacs]

In agreement again, except for the 5th gear w/3. 55's statement. In 5th or direct, there is no torque on anything in the transmission. It becomes a 360 lb carrier brg. No, I have not seen or heard of any NV5600 failures to speak of with any axle ratio. It seems to be almost bullet proof. However when it does show up, my theory says it will be overdrive related.





"NICK"

 

[RustyJC]

The transmission output shaft still transmits the torque to the driveline, in 5th or 6th gear.



We can joust over this subject until the cows come home, and neither of us is going to change the other's mind. It's supposed to be 70+ degF and clear this weekend, so I'm going home and pull the motorcycle out and get some riding in. Although technical debates are enjoyable, they're not as much fun as hitting the backroads on the BMW K1200GT.



You have a nice weekend as well.



Rusty

 

[NIsaacs]

Enjoy your ride, I am jeolous of the BMW and the 70 degrees. I thank you for the lessons learned... ... ... . untill next time, ride carefull



PS. What gears ya got in that there BMW :-laf





"NICK"

 

[GWBourne]

PS. What gears ya got in that there BMW :-laf





"NICK"

and is it a shaft drive or shain drive?

Grant

 

[RustyJC]

Shaft drive, and the drive gears are neither 3. 54 nor 4. 10! :-laf



Rusty

 

[NIsaacs]

So, what is the GVW/GCW, sorry couldn't resist!!





"NICK"

 

[BigIronRam]

Overdrive is always the weak link in a manual transmission. How much so in the 6-spd. we really don't know yet and it might take a jillion miles. But when it go's it will be overdrive related. Maybe not the gears themselves, but the heat and stress on bearings & shafts. Thats why all the big trucks have moved to direct drive trannys and high axle gears. Case in point, why the little four speed trannys of yesteryear lasted so long, (direct drive).





"NICK"

From my "truck driving" days, I understood the reason for direct drive / higher axle ratios rather than overdrive / lower ratios was about 3% fuel economy increase. Direct drive provided the least parasitic losses as it was explained to me.



I do agree overdrive gears aren't as strong as underdrives or directs, nothing new there. My little brother and I had that discussion about 30 years ago. He was arguing for underdrives with higher axles ratios. I can't disagree, but it seems to me a little like 6 of one or seven of the other... :-laf



Robert

 

[brods]

So what effect does the higher shaft rpm have on ujoint and pinion bearing wear? It is safe to assume the driveline is not perfectly balanced so the higher the rpm the higher the loads due to imbalance and the more heat produced. How much will the accelerated wear from the extra rpms negate the "savings" from the reduced torque?

 

[klenger]

I had an 01. 5 with 3. 54's and an NV4500 for about 6 months before I bought a 2001. 5 HO NV5600 with 4. 10's Problem I had with the 3. 54's is that in 5th (OD), RPMs were too low for towing. When I shifted into 4th (direct), they were too high for towing. The 4. 10's were perfect for towing at 60 - 65 MPH in 6th. My current truck has 3. 73's, and while they work OK, I'd still rather have the 4. 10's for towing. Now, a G56 with 3. 07's might me kind of neat. Cruise in 6th empty and use 5th for towing. The ratios work out almost the same as an NV5600 with 3. 54's and 4. 10's.



For those who think that 4. 10's will kill your bank account, do this simple math. Assuming that you know how many hours are on your truck (easy to find out on the 3rd gen). Divide the total miles on your truck my total hours and you have your average MPH. In my case, with my current truck, it works out to 40 MPH over the life of the truck. I really don't think that 4. 10's make all that much diff. in fuel economy at 40 MPH. For those who are on the freeway empty all the time, YMMV (pun intended).

 

[SnoKing]

I like my 4:10 and DTT auto. 5er is 11,250 and I run 63-65 MPH at around 2000 RPM and hardly ever have to down shift. PLUS I have all four gears to work with. 3. 54 and I would be out of OD half the time. PLUS the exhaust brake works great with the 4:10. So towing + auto = 4:10's. The new G56 should offer a 3. 54 ratio, as the 3:73 in 6th are the same as 4:10 and a NV5600, or a bit low for most people with the manual. SNOKING

 

[4xquadrod]

Yep, I like my 4. 10 and DTT auto with Gear Vendors overdrive unit.

 

[Hohn]

Pull a big load up a long grade and you'll find out real quick. There is a big difference. Everyday driving and pulling small loads you probably won't notice any difference, and running empty down the freeway you're actually better off with the 3. 55 gears because you can run faster at lower rpm.



A 3. 55 geared truck will still pull the load, but it will downshift much sooner and work the engine a lot harder. I've seen this firsthand. It's a fact. Not a good setup for pulling heavy loads. I wouldn't touch one with 3. 55 gears for what I do.

I think I could see the 4. 10s for an auto transmission.



But I can't see it for a 6-speed.



With 4. 10s in OD, final drive is 2. 95.



With 3. 54s in direct, it's (duh) 3. 54 overall.

So, a simple downshift into 5th will put more power to the ground with 3. 54s than you'd get in OD with 4. 10s.





And, with 3. 54s in 5th gear, 50 mph is 2K rpm. 60mph is 2400 rpm. 65 is 2600rpm, any of which the truck will handle all day.



So the 3. 54s can be used effectively in areas where you can't sustain interstate speeds.



Then, you get on the Interstate, and you get 2K rpm right at 72mph-- perfect!





I just can't see the 4. 10s with the 6-speed UNLESS you use your truck almost exclusively for towing heavy (like RustyJC does).



Of course, it depends on how fast your drive. If you never want to go over 65 or so, then 4. 10s are PERFECT!



jmo

 

[dodgeguy44]

You grocery haulers never give it a rest

Sorry Son, my trucks don't get the pleasure of getting groceries. They don't make parking spaces to fit these trucks anymore.



If my truck can't pull my trailer in high gear at 1800 rpm or lower, up any hill the trailer is allowed on, then the motor needs help and will get help. In fact it's quite fun to blow by all you guys with 4. 10s stuggling to climb hills at 2000+ rpm. I am polite and wave though and not the California wave either. :-laf



Burn fuel if you want but I'll take 3. 54 or lower. This truck should have at least 3. 21 gears to bring the rpm down to acceptable levels for an inline 6 diesel towing only 21000 lbs.

 

[MMiller]

The only time I ever wish I had 410 in my 93, is when I'm starting out 28-29,000# GVW in soft conditions, uphill, and using low in the t-case is out of the question. I'm running 3. 55's and 33" mud tires. At 29,000 around here it will run OD at about 72 mph with not much problems, and on the 2 lanes, set her at 58 mph in direct and pull any hill around here.



If mine was a simple 2 lane highway, hauling hay and livestock trailer truck, then 410s are fine, but when I want to set the cruise at 72 mph loaded heavy I like to run OD and let her eat. The old getrag is still holding fine, knock on wood.



The old days of gearing a truck to run against the governor at highway speeds, has been changed to gear it fast and run it slow, in the OTR market. Proven fuel economy improvements. Too bad our "diesel" pickups are getting more horsepower oriented, and more seat of the pants acceleration empty, instead of low end grunt, pulling hard all day. Not saying the new trucks don't pull just fine, but look how much the cummins engine, and the Navistar have changed, gobs more horsepower, but only 200 more ft lbs of torque. Gotta have more rpms, quicker spool up, to sell trucks on test drives.



Michael

 

[dodgeguy44]

The old days of gearing a truck to run against the governor at highway speeds, has been changed to gear it fast and run it slow, in the OTR market. Proven fuel economy improvements. Too bad our "diesel" pickups are getting more horsepower oriented, and more seat of the pants acceleration empty, instead of low end grunt, pulling hard all day. Not saying the new trucks don't pull just fine, but look how much the cummins engine, and the Navistar have changed, gobs more horsepower, but only 200 more ft lbs of torque. Gotta have more rpms, quicker spool up, to sell trucks on test drives.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[kah68]

I have not towed with a 24 valve but my brother has and he agees with me. He has 3. 54, auto, 24v and it works great with his 5th whl. When I had my 94, 12v, auto, 3. 54, my GCW was 19000 lbs and I never found a hill that slowed it down even 1-2 mph, 6%, 7%, or what ever. EGT 950 post turbo. transmission 185. Now my 98 12v 5spd set up the same slows down about 5-10 mph on the same hills running higher rpm, 1800 vs 2100, hmmmm. So why would I want it geared lower?



As for low rpm towing... ... ... ... highway tractors run from 1400 to 1700 rpm because that is where the torque is on a I6 diesel. I ran mine(Clatterpiller) in this range and never went over 1800. Drives me nuts listening to the engine scream for no reason. If the engine doesn't want to pull below 2000 rpm, it needs some help.

You are comparing a 15 liter motor to a 5. 9, Cummins designed this motor to rev! 1600 is peak torque but 2700 is peak hp. These motors will run up to 4300 rpm before it flys apart! The sweet spot on 24 valves doesn't start till 1900. Ask any cummins engineer, they will run all day long at 2500 and not hurt it one little bit. 1900-2300 is a very exceptable operating range and if you want to run a little faster it only comes at a the price of fuel ecomony. I prefer to run the engine a little higher than too low. It all depends if you are using it like a car most of the time or a truck. Hard core towing or folks who like power on tap and less downshifting are why 4:10's are around in auto's. I personally would like to see dodge bring out 6 speed auto;s and 7 speed manuals with double over drives with the option of 4:10 and 3:73

 

[kscheffler]

Gear Vendor

I have the best of both worlds, did not come cheaply, but do I love the 4. 10 with the gear vendor I can run at what ever RPM and speed combination that I want. I think my next modification will be to ace the 265/75 tires and go to a 255/85 tire to provide more low RPM options. I would hate to go back to straight 4. 10 just because of the noise at 72 mph.

 

[RADdodge]

4.10 Was My Answer

When I ordered our truck, I knew I wanted to put 19. 5 alcoa wheels on it. Comparing a 3. 54 using the stock 235/85 16 (tire diameter 31. 73") tires would calculated out to about 59. 2 MPH at 1800 RPM and 85. 5 MPH at 2600 RPM (approx max torque vs max HP respectivly for the 2001). With 4. 10 and the the 285/70 19. 5 tires (diameter 35. 21"), the calculated speeds at 1800/2600 RPM is 60. 7/87. 7 mph. The resultant ratio ends up being about 3. 69 with the 4. 10 and larger wheels when compared to stock wheels and the 3. 54. I couldn't imagine running large wheels/tires with a 3. 54.

 

[Nate]

I put 4. 10s in my truck because it sucked pulling trailers with 3. 55s. With the 4. 10s, 65mph is right at 1800, 70-75 just a touch over 2k.



I suppose if I had the stock little dinky tires I'd think otherwise.



Sure you can but more power to the motor, but the transmission can only take so much!





With the manual transmission truck, I don't think I'd want 4. 10s. My roomate has an 01 HO with the 6 speed, and I was convinced that had 4. 10s in it because it was geared so low. 6th gear doing 45 mph at like 1600-1700rpm Ends up he's got 3. 55s in that. He ended up putting bigger tires so he could do highway speeds at a normal RPM.

 

[macdaddy]

This 05 is the kind with the 56 Honey and 4:10's. I tow at 63 MPH motor is right at the sweet spot 2K. This set up offers



_No speeding tickets.

_excellent fuel economy 13. 5 pulling 10. 5K

_ more than ample power for acceleration while under load.

_piece of mind while my wife is towing with it.

_pulls 6th gear in many areas with stock motor while towing.



Mac