Why you don't want to go to the Dealership

[TGVET]

My truck has never been to one since it left the lot and now knowing what I just found out, it NEVER will.
If you take your 5. 9 to it for any reason they will reprogram the ECM and de-tune it. You will loose power and fuel mileage. I'm thankful my intuition told me cancel my appointment.

I'd be curious to know anyone experiencing a loss in performance to back up what I found out this morning by having had their truck to the stealership with its ORIGINAL factory ECM programming re-programmed. It could have been done whether you were aware of it or not even by taking it in for a car wash or an oil change.

 

[Regcabguy]

I had mine in for the KO1 emissions recall for Ca and aside from frying my ECM(they supplied a new one) it runs the same.

 

[Prairie Dog]

There's been urban legend on here about new SW reducing power but dyno tests have shown otherwise.
I have had all the ECM updates and haven't lost any power. Because I tow I would surely notice any decrease.

 

[Bob4x4]

Tg,, your post always make you sound like an unhappy paranoid person. Cheer up man

 

[Prairie Dog]

OTOH there's lots of other good reasons to not go to the dealer including dents, chips, scratches and outright incompetence to name just a few.
This isn't to say all dealer techs are bad, they're not but a few bad ones ruin it for the rest.

 

[jelag]

I thought that the management of this forum had decided with the rest of us that the use of the term, "Stealership" was a word that we'd decided to drop from our vocabulary... . Even though we might think on the negative side sometimes when we deal with a Dealer... the term was out... .

Over the past 20 years... and I can't count how many Fords and now Dodges that I've owned, (I always had 4-5 at one time in business) and to be honest I've not returned to the dealer under warranty, or unless there is something we or now I can't do myself...

I'm now forced, to see them over a ECM upgrade to charge trailer batteries... I've been referred in to improve the charging voltage when towing... . something my truck now does at least 85% of the time when its on the road. . and I've been tardy doing it... because of the stigma of not getting a person who I feel is better than I am at understand these trucks... . I'd go to Bob 4x4 or Sag2 if I was close to where they work. . because I've followed their posts and respect their knowledge... but I'm just not sure at the average dealer...

So Bob and Sag2 is there a standard that the factory holds you too, to verify that in fact they are capable of understanding what's up... I'm now dragging up... from our winter digs here in AZ and will be in OR (Klamath Falls) for the next two months working (volunteering) for the ODFW (Oregon Dept. Fish & Wildlife) at a game refuge. . and have until next spring (2014) to get it done... . than we're full timing it for 5-6 months to and from Alaska...

Thanks for listening... BTW - didn't we have a lot of early get together's at Carson Dodge in Carson City/Reno... I'm passing through later this week... was there some good techs there... . or has that changed...

 

[cerberusiam]

I thought that the management of this forum had decided with the rest of us that the use of the term, "Stealership" was a word that we'd decided to drop from our vocabulary... . Even though we might think on the negative side sometimes when we deal with a Dealer... the term was out... .

You are correct, it is not good forum decorum to use that term no matter what we feel. It has been addressed.

As for the flash reducing power, not been my experience and I was teaching the diesel tech a few things along the way the last time I had it done. If they mess up the flash it could have some unintended results, like power disappears. We end up having to rely on the integrity of the dealer and management ot make things right when the mess up.

If one is worried about getting the lates flashes then buy a Smarty, it has updated software in it. How much for the body stuff is questionable but it should have all the engine management software in there. Then the only worry is your ability and equipment.

 

[brods]

First you have to run the Service Writer gauntlet where they try to sell you needless high profit services, like the transmission flush scam, etc. When asked to justify their recommendations they often show their ignorance while trying to make the sale. One also has to wonder how much of what you tell them about the problem will get to the mechanic who is going to do the work.



Once you agree to the repairs there is the inevitable call with a host of other things that they recommended you do, but when pressed they agree are not immediately necessary (ie more up selling).



There is the tech roulette, where you may get a great one or the oil change newbie trying to work up the ladder. You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Do I feel lucky?”



Throw in any recalls and software updates that may or may not an improvement.



Then comes the expensive bill and, if you’re fortunate, it is what was agreed to when you brought the car in.



Once you get the vehicle back you have to go over all the work done checking for loose or missing fasteners, displaced wire looms, etc and fix all the stuff the tech was in too much of a hurry to put back right.



Soooo I can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t want to pay top dollar for such a great experience.

 

[Bob4x4]

There have been quite a few techs on here that have left or do not post because of all the disrespect thrown around here
A good part of my time is spent repairing vehicles that have been hacked at independent shops or in some cases I am guessing a dealer or 2 Many times generalizations are wrong and unwarranted but the few who sling them around feel justified for whatever reasons. Jim there are standards and warranty claims will not get paid if the tech doing the job has not attained the level the job requires. In any field there are always things that fall through the cracks

 

[Tractorat]

Maybe it is brand specific. In my life, I have had nothing but great luck with the GM dealerships Ive dealt with. And Datsun was great as well. But 3 of the 4 Dodge dealerships Ive dealt with have had something to be desired. Only one is still in business.

 

[Deleted member 995608]

I know they're out to get me. I have found hidden camera's and microphones after an oil change. And once, I found a GPS tracker installed into my ECM. Darn the dealerships. . . . . . . . .

 

[brods]

Bob, I have the utmost respect for yourself and Sag2 and if you guys were local I’d bring my truck to either of you in a heartbeat. The problem lies with the system that demands vehicles move through the shop quickly and dealers who reward speed (even when sloppy) rather than quality.



Unfortunately my experiences with dealers have been more negative than positive and a lot depends on the service writer. He is the “salesman” who can facilitate a good repair experience or come across like a greasy snake oil peddler. Sure it is easy for the tech to forget or over look something, stuff happens, but as customers we are paying top dollar to the dealer to have the repair done right. I don’t think expecting the vehicle to be returned in the same condition it was in before the repair was done is unreasonable. Maybe it is <shrug>

 

[DZink24]

Right on the money brods. . i have heard numerous stories over the years of friends who have brought a vehicle into a franchised dealership, only to have the doors dinged, one tons fender flares taken off because the tech cut the overhead door too close, and just last week, my bosses 2013 Ford was hit in the parking lot by the tech that was plowing snow. . major front end damage. he's had the car for 2 months, it was in for warranty work, and he got the "call"... in the back of my mind, i know his car will never be the same. . but i digress, for those of us with 3/4 or 1 ton trucks with a Cummins, even a minor repair will set us back at least $1,000, "because it's a diesel". . ok, fine, if i am shelling out that much money, it darn well better be fixed right the first time, and if not, repaired properly, at no cost to me, and with no other damage to the vehicle. .

Bob, I have the utmost respect for yourself and Sag2 and if you guys were local I'd bring my truck to either of you in a heartbeat. The problem lies with the system that demands vehicles move through the shop quickly and dealers who reward speed (even when sloppy) rather than quality.

Unfortunately my experiences with dealers have been more negative than positive and a lot depends on the service writer. He is the “salesman” who can facilitate a good repair experience or come across like a greasy snake oil peddler. Sure it is easy for the tech to forget or over look something, stuff happens, but as customers we are paying top dollar to the dealer to have the repair done right. I don't think expecting the vehicle to be returned in the same condition it was in before the repair was done is unreasonable. Maybe it is <shrug>

 

[Regcabguy]

Dodge could do well with sharing some of their new found profits with the techs and increasing their training. A bonus for work done right the first time would help too.
In the absence of Bob4x4 or Sag2 and others I'm lucky to have a good independent shop here to use.
We're fortunate to have some of these techs try and help in the light of some owner's attitudes of ignoring the advice of guys who fix these complex machines for a living.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

My '02 has been in the dealership twice, for warranty issues - a leaking vacuum pump seal, and a passenger side mirror that steadily drifted out of adjustment. Yeah, not huge service items, but BOTH were handled quickly, efficiently, and with no associated, new issues after the work was done.

Other than that, ALL other work, mods and maintenance has been done by me, other than new injectors and the 4 inch exhaust system done by Rip Rook...

I don't necessarily distrust the dealerships, I'm just too cheap to pay someone else to do what I can easily do for myself!

 

[sag2]

So Bob and Sag2 is there a standard that the factory holds you too, to verify that in fact they are capable of understanding what's up...

As Bob said there are requirements for training in order to get paid for warranty work. Unfortunately the standards are not as high as I would have set them. And for non-warranty work it is up to each dealer to set the standard. And just like doctors, there is the best in the class, and the worst, but they both graduated and got their MD.
And just like good and not as good technicians there are good and not as good dealers. Your best bet is to give your business to those dealers that people recommend, and vote with your feet with the others if you have a bad experience. The factory has always had the best interests in mind for its customers, but each dealer is an independent business with a franchise agreement that gives them very wide range of responsibilities, especially here in CA. If you want to check your dealer ask them what their CPS (Customer Promoter Score) is, and what their BC average is. That should give you a pretty good idea on what your dealers actual customers think of their experience. Technicians should be level three (last year top level was four) which is the highest level under the new Fiat training program.
Over the years the dealers have continued to demand more web based training from the factory to reduce their expenses, but in my experience there is no replacement for live hands on training.

 

[Kry226]

There's always a certain level of trust you have to give a dealer when you drop the truck off. If you cannot do that, don't drop off the truck. I know some of this is easier said than done.

But my philosophy is to do things that reduces my need to go to the dealer in the first place. Primarily, I do all of my own maintenance. I cannot tell you how many thousands of dollars I have saved simply by doing my own LOFs, water pump changes, shock replacements, suspension installation, HVAC door R&R, etc, etc, etc. Even if I got some free maintenance deal, I'd still just do it myself. Not only do I gain the skills, I know it's done right, I become more intimately familiar with my truck, and it's pretty hard to ding my truck in my own driveway.

Also, I only take my truck into dealers that service a lot of diesels. Being in the military and always moving makes that tough, but in those times when I am in an area of the country where diesel trucks are few and far between, like now, I can generally find a reputable indy shop should I need service beyond my skill-level (many thanks to the forums).

 

[BIGNASTY]

IM GUILTY!!! or was



I had a bad experience with a Dealership and took it as, ALL ARE THE SAME. After talking with Bob and others on this site I have to admit that my thoughts were unfair. Be like saying all truck drivers are good, all mule packers are as good as ME



AND THAT ALL CALIFORNIA ROADS ARE LIKE GLASS!!!!!!!!!!



Come on Calif what the Heck happened to the roads? Been in So Cal for about a week now and have found pot holes that make front end alignment shops MILLIONARES, every frwy has something going on construction wise.



AND GLAD TO SEE THAT FOR GOOD OR BAD (YOUR CHOICE) SOME THINGS NEVER CHANGE.





Everyone is in a hurry to get to where ever it is they are going AND DONT KNOW HOW TO DRIVE!!!!!!



DO THE WORDS SLOW DOWN MEEN ANYTHING OUT HERE??????????? :-laf

 

[TGVET]

Tg,, your post always make you sound like an unhappy paranoid person. Cheer up man

In ten years I put 475,000 miles on my 95 Suburban 6. 5TD. I replaced 1-TPS, 1-MFS, 1-coolant T fitting made from plastic and the transmission under warranty at 41K until the #2 cyl. intake valve chipped. That's it other than brakes, shocks and routine maintenance.



My Dodge that I was orgasmic over for the first five years is now a money pit. And just to be fair, the highly recommended indy shop I took it to recently ripped me off by not fixing the original issue I took it in for which was my Cam. position sensor. After more than two days in the shop trouble shooting, replacing what the mech thought was the Cam sensor but instead only tried swapping the Crank sensor and finally determined I needed a new ECM (which I didn't). Not giving up and not wanting to take it to the dealer I decided to work on it one last time myself, getting a new cam sensor from Napa, installing it, clearing the codes and fixed the problem.



All was good for a week until just the other day I had RPM surge, popping out of 4th gear to third, ultimately causing me to need to stop and then start again. I thought I was having yet another problem with the trans, no engine serv. light though. Just for the heck of it I decided to plug in my Super Chips programmer and see if anything would read, all was good. Not having used the programmer for three years, I called Sup Chips to find out about any Flash for the programmer, tech said not necessary, but did say he thought my erratic RPM sounded like a fuel rail issue, solenoid not getting fuel delivery.



I told him about my "non-ECM issue" and all, to which HE stated, "Don't take it to the dealer for any reason, they will de-tune it". So I decided to reprogram the ECM out of performance/tow mode back to stock and see if the problem would go away. It did. I don't know if it's just getting tired of seeing higher fuel PSI from the perf. /tow mode or what, but it was the tech. at Super Chips that conveyed his experience to me about Gen-3 owners taking to the dealers and getting their truck back with less power and worse MPG's. That is why I posted.



The posts I put up about MY experiences do not come without warrant Bob. I don't have a money tree to pluck every time I need to drop a grand here or a grand there to fix my truck. I've spent over 13,000 in the last two years to keep my truck going NOT including minimal maintenance dollars for fluids, grease, filters. I am a maintenance FREAK.



Shortly after I bought my truck I encountered another 05 Dodge Ram owner whom I would see now and then driving I-5 in the same area I do everyday to work and back. He had a big sticker on his rear window stating how he got a lemon and Dodge ripped him off etc... I just figured eh, there's going to be a bad apple in every basket and he just happened to get one. Chances of mine being one are less than remote.



Boy, was I wrong.



I've been on here long enough Bob (and other diesel forums) to read countless posts of Ram lemon owners. I don't need YOU to tell me to cheer up. There's nothing to be cheerful about living with a lemon and I am happy if my truck gets me to work and gets me back home.



In hind sight, I kick myself for ever buying the Dodge and not just rebuilding my 6. 5. I would have been well over 60,000 dollars ahead.

 

[TGVET]

There's always a certain level of trust you have to give a dealer when you drop the truck off. If you cannot do that, don't drop off the truck. I know some of this is easier said than done.



But my philosophy is to do things that reduces my need to go to the dealer in the first place. Primarily, I do all of my own maintenance. I cannot tell you how many thousands of dollars I have saved simply by doing my own LOFs, water pump changes, shock replacements, suspension installation, HVAC door R&R, etc, etc, etc. Even if I got some free maintenance deal, I'd still just do it myself. Not only do I gain the skills, I know it's done right, I become more intimately familiar with my truck, and it's pretty hard to ding my truck in my own driveway.



Also, I only take my truck into dealers that service a lot of diesels. Being in the military and always moving makes that tough, but in those times when I am in an area of the country where diesel trucks are few and far between, like now, I can generally find a reputable indy shop should I need service beyond my skill-level (many thanks to the forums).

DITTO All things I have mentioned previously.