2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Would you or wouldn't you?

[Joe Mc]

Part 1> If these Dodge trucks were NOT available with a Cummins diesel engine, would you or would you not still buy one? NO



Reasons? Drive a Cummins w/Dodge wrapped around it



Part 2> If the Cummins was instead available in a Ford or Chevy, would you buy one of them instead of a Dodge?

Yes



Ford makes a better truck, then Chevy/GMC (I'll slice my neck later guys, but it's true). MHO.



I really liked my 90 F-150 XLT Larry, Auto 4X4, std cab lng bed except for the 8-9 mpg around town (5. 0 fi) and the "BEST" I ever saw of 14 mpg on the hwy. It would have been a better truck w/6cyl 300 cid. Lost it in a flood in 96 - Mother Nature's way of doing me a big favor.



I absolutely LOVE my Dodge now that it's "MY WAY" 192k and counting . . .

 

[Grizzly]

I hope more and more 12v owners start seeing it your way, George. I truly do.



Not only will they never suffer another breakdown, but it should also mean more obsolete old 12v's on the market for stubborn, unenlightened old curmudgeons like me to be stuck with.



BTW. I have no objection to 24 valves, the more the merrier if you like extra moving parts, but I still don't see what your computer does better than my "no computer".



I look at a Cummins computer like an appendix: no identifiable useful purpose and no predicting when it might fail and no way to prevent it, but generally reliably harmless for the life of the host. But every now and then, probably when you're at the farthest point from civilization and help if Murphy's Law holds true, it can fail and create a very serious problem and expense beyond what you already paid extra for it.



Why would I give up what I have and pay extra for that?

I didn't say that you will never suffer another breakdown with a 24 valve. I said that I've never heard of one, so they must be few and far between. After all, one can have a breakdown with anything. IMO there's not enough reason to be afraid of 24 valve, computers and newer than 2nd generation. The first of the 24 valve was 98 I believe and yes, Dodge did have problems with it, but they soon fixed it.



george

 

[SRath]

You've never heard of the computerized fuel pump going out on a 24v? My brother's did right after he bought his '02. Set him back over 2 grand. There's a 24 valve forum somewhere... I wonder if we can find any breakdowns "you never heard of" there. . ?

Look, George, I have nothing against the 24 valve per se. I just hate computerized stuff. My computer just took it's second dump in 4 months yesterday and I'm on my kid's computer now. If that laptop, never exposed to heat and vibration and extreme cold and rain and snow and even mice cannot operate with any reliability, why the heck would I want to exchange the legendary P7100 for a computerized version with a well-deserved reputation of not even going 70k miles without problems?

Even if it operated perfectly forever, like yours always do, what in the world can it do better than the non-computerized cummins? Not a doggone thing.

I can match your "perfect record" George and look you straight in the eye and tell you I have never, ever owned a Ford that ever broke down.

Of course, I have never owned a Ford...

It's perfectly OK with me if you and millions of other guys love computerized vehicles. Why does it bother you so much that I don't?

 

[AClayton]

I didn't say that you will never suffer another breakdown with a 24 valve. I said that I've never heard of one, so they must be few and far between. After all, one can have a breakdown with anything. IMO there's not enough reason to be afraid of 24 valve, computers and newer than 2nd generation. The first of the 24 valve was 98 I believe and yes, Dodge did have problems with it, but they soon fixed it.



george

George,



I have to call you out on your position stating you never heard of the 2nd gen 24V lift pump and VP44 failures. I have to say that it would be a very large percentage of trucks w/ the VP that didn't make it to 100k miles before the lift pump failed... ... ... many times taking the IP with it. Which is why we all need mandatory fuel psi gauges in our trucks. I know you had a 95' and then traded up to an 05' but I would have thought you would have heard about this. Going to go out on a limb and say the VP44 and lift pump failures of the 98. 5 to 02' vintage Cummins trucks is just as common knowledge as the 'Furd' 6. 0 PS woes.





Alan

 

[Grizzly]

Alan,



I believe I said that I am aware of the fact that Cummins did have problems with the 24 valve when they first came out, but those problems have been worked out. As you and I know anytime Dodge, Ford and GM introduces something new, they almost always have problems to work out. I am very much aware of the V44 and lift pump problems.



Problems with new technology are the reason I didn't purchase a 94 Dodge or a 99. Also if I were in the market for a new truck, which I'm not, I would never had considered the first year of the 6. 7 engine, the 07. 5.



george

 

[Missouri Mule]

I would of bought a Dodge with a gas engine( I always been a Dodge/Chrysler Man even if I bought other makes.

A Farmer I bought from recommended to me I needed to buy a Dodge/Cummins Pick-UP. Before then I never heard of Cummins or many of the other diesel engines. Even though I new how they worked.

In 94 I started looking for one , in 96 I found one that had eveything I wanted. Because I liked the Dodge/Cummins set up I bought a Freightliner with the Cummins engine in it



If I was looking for a diesel and Ford had a Cummins I would of bought it but as it was they had the International ( which isn't all bad my Cousin works for them), but the International had plastic parts on the injection system that started to break at 100,000( which did not keep the Farmer from buying one every couple of years).



I never was a fan of chevy so even if it had a Cummins I wouldn't of bought one.

 

[MAYoung]

I have been exposed to a lot of Dodge trucks in my lifetime through my father. I bought the Dodge because of the Cummins engine.



I have had a near direct comparison of a 1999 Ford F-350 diesel versus my 1998. 5 Dodge. The Dodge is, overall, a nicer vehicle and better engineered. I will give you a simple point--the parking brake foot pedal. No big thing, right? In the Dodge, you push down and the pedal returns to the starting position. In the Ford, you push it down and it stays down--until the parking brake is released. In the winter months, the Ford delivers a nice batch of snow, slush and anything else left on the pedal. Not a big thing, but it is an irritant.



Lots of little details like the above... not big but they add up.



M. Young

 

[Skydiver]

My uncle had a lt. green 68 Dodge D-200 w/318 4-speed 2x4 that would carry anything you could put in the bed. I remember We ounce stacked 8" concrete blocks about 3 feet over the cab. This would have been around 1974. So I had my respect for Dodge from age 14. In 1989 I heard of the Cummins option in the new trucks so to the Dodge store I went. If I remember correctly it was a $3800 option. Anyway I took out the 3-speed 3/4 ton to see how it would behave. I remember it spinning tires on dry blacktop. Not unheard of for a 29 year old man. I took it back to the dealer and waited 10 years until I found my Dodge Cummins.
As some of you remember I have been a diesel fanatic since age 6. I was a victim of the infamous Oldsmobile v-8 diesel. Yes, I just had to have a new truck at age 19. The engine in that 1979 1500 chevy was so sorry I don't even want to talk about it. Still the diesel fanatic that I was and being let down by GM I did not give up. In 1981 A new VW rabbit LS diesel was under my carport. 10 years later a 1981 Mercedes 300D came home with me. Great vehicles if you are not in a hurry.
The reason I give you my diesel history is, it was Cummins that brought me to Dodge and with a little knowledge of the Dodge truck I figured it was a win win situation.
It Was and still is.

 

[Sticks]

This was starting to turn into a rather long winded vehicle history of mine so I will do a "Cliff Notes" version.

In 2000 I made the decision to get a Diesel pickup, and everything I learned pointed to Dodge/Cummins. In 2001 I traded in my Dodge 1500 sport for a 2500 LWB Auto. Oops. Right vehicle/engine combo, way wrong transmission.

In 2002 I traded that in for my current 2002 3500 6 speed.

In 2005 I made my 3rd career change (Administrative to Mechanic with a specialty in Diesels) and was working and going to school full time. My very first job was changing out a VP44 in a Ford 4500 w/a 24v Cummins.

That right there has to tell you something. Ford offers the very same engine as an option in their medium duty trucks as Dodge has stock in their light duty trucks. And still does - never mind the off road heavy equipment, buses and box trucks of various manufacturers that is equipped with the 5. 9 I-6 Cummins, both 12 and 24 valve.

My experience has taught me what chassis is best for what application, and what engine is best for what application.

Chevy is a great pickup if it is kept as a Pavement Princess. Suspension is waaay to soft and too low a ground clearance. Great for hauling a 5er... if it had a Cummins. The 6. 2 & 6. 5 were a joke, and you replaced glow plugs and injectors like you would spark plugs on a '80s gasser - once a year. PITA to work on. The Duramax seems to be OK if you don't mess with the performance (built maxed out), but still has little quirks, and the first step for any engine repair is drain the coolant system... something wrong there.

Ford is a great pickup for off road type work - construction. Good ground clearance, well built frame and suspension decent Diesel option. Take care of the 7. 3 Powerstorke and it holds out fairly well, just really expensive to fix. Not all that easy to work on (cramped engine compartment but better than the Chevy) Even the older 7. 3 IDIs were OK. The first few years of the 6. ? Powerstroke were an absolute nightmare to diagnose and fix. 6 hours to change a serpentine belt (had to pull the radiator) and it was faster and easier to pull the cab than fight with it to do injectors or glowplugs. Had to do it if the heads had to come off. Gods help you if you bought a van or box truck with the extra compartment above the cab.

Dodge is the truck you want if you are towing HEAVY. Jumbo maxed out GVWR 5er or commercial hauling smaller loads than Class 8. It gets up and goes, and keeps on going. And it starts, every time, in all seasons. OK for for off road work, front end sucks. Repairs are moderate and ease of access... hands down the easiest engine to work on (except in a cab-over or pusher bus #@$%! ).

I have zero experience with the CR engine config. I think we had one come in the shop for some odd issue, I did not get to work on it, and all it needed was an injector replaced.

To answer the OP question with what I know now;

1. No Cummins, I would still own a Dodge. Never a Chevy, Ford if I had no other option.

2. Cummins in a Ford, absolutely as that would probably be the best cab/chassis and engine configuration you can get. Again, never a Chevy.

I am forced to work on GM pickups (gassers) at my current job as a field service tech for a concrete paving company. I hate them. I reeeealllly hate them. Too soft, too weak, too low, and too gol-darned cramped to work on everywhere (engine, cab, drivetrain... ). Even the two service trucks I drive/drove (98 6. 5 3500 and now a GMC C5500) are not for off road use, and I have to go off road.

 

[SRath]

Sticks, you are obviously talking about newer chevys built since 1988 and I couldn't agree more. Junk. They completely ruined a good line of trucks with their IFS. I also agree about the ford chassis.

 

[RHestand]

SRath, Thanks for a great thread! Makes me wonder why I never thought to ask this question.
First things first, I bought my Dodges (An 06 and now a 98) for the Cummins engines. From the 1960's till now I have never been a big fan of any of the Chrysler products regarding the interiors, the body and the suspension. That includes cars and pickups. Drive trains? Fair to excellent.
Just one example of that: In 1969 a good friend of mine bought a new Plymouth Roadrunner with the 440ci eng. , four speed and 3. 90 gears. He started drag-racing it as soon as the new wore off so I started helping him make it go faster, which included a lot of after market parts including a complete rebuild and blueprint on the 440. We raced that car off and on for about 3 years (It ran high 11 and low 12 second ET's) with never any major breakage. But from day one when you shut the doors, it sounded like you dropped an empty beer can on the ground, and within a year the vinyl front seat was shredded. IMHO, very much a penny wise / dollar stupid corporate decision.
IMO, Ford has the best 3/4 and one ton pickup with the exception of the engine. I started buying new 3/4 ton Ford trucks as my daily drivers and work trucks in the 1970's and would keep them for 4 or 5 years. Most were good gas V/8s but also included two diesels, one a non-turbo (Gutless!) and a 2003 "SIX. OH NO". What a disaster! For me that's when Ford became furd with regard to diesel pickups.
In about 1990 I test drove Dodge/Cummins but couldn't consider buying it because of IMO, the second rate cab.
Now as a side note, about two years ago I read an article about the Ford factory in Brazil? offering the F-250 with the 4 cyl. Cummins as an option. I personally would like to try that one out.
Ray

 

[SRath]

Someone is really missing the boat there, aren't they Ray? A 4 cylinder Cummins should have been available in a domestic non-commercial vehicle decades ago. It would be king of daily driver SUV and light duty pickup engines, imo.



The number of extremely happy owners of such conversions attests to that. I have never met a Dodge Durango owner who would buy a second one or recommend it to anyone else, mostly because of the extremely poor fuel economy. Imagine that particular suv with a 4BT from the factory. Even Chrysler could build an automatic trans that could survive behind it and a front suspension that could hold the weight.



There are conversion owners who claim over 30mpg and adequate, if not particularly eye-opening, performance from a 4bt in full-size K5 Blazers and such. I have never understood why dodge didn't take advantage of their relationship with Cummins to help their floundering Durango model. I would have to consider buying one if it had a 4bt. Actually, any suv or similar vehicle would get my serious consideration if it had the 4BT in it.

 

[mhelburg]

After giving it a lot of deep thought since my post on this thread, I would drive a Dodge gasser. Not for the engine but for the rest of the drivetrain. No 1500s though. I really enjoy my 2nd gen and want a first gen. My family has been GM based for three or four generations and have to agree that GM screwed up with IFS and auto trannys as the majority. I won't drive a modern ford, nothing after '79 interestes me, with their TTB front axles.

 

[Soot4Life]

NO! The Cummins is wonderful but the Dodge part has been a real pain with endless issues that have kept me and others under the hood way too often. I've spent way too much money on things that never needed repair, rebuilds, or replacement on the Chevy & Fords I've owned with comparable mileage. I bought the Cummins and the Dodge came with it.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Cummins is the ONLY reason I bought Dodge

 

[HEMI®Dart]

1. I still would by a Dodge

2. Cummins in a Ferd or General Mistake. Not a chance. Why degrade the wonderful Cummins by putting it in the formers? I'd by a Dodge HEMI truck

 

[DACoffman]

I love my cummins,but worried the transmission bolt holes will wear out before the cummins. Wish we had allisons automatics,that would be the truck.

 

[Seane1987]

I'de still be driving my 96 Dakota if it weren't for this truck, I really miss that little bugger, I will NEVER make that mistake with this truck. Its not my daily driver anymore and I plan on keeping it forever. I've heard way to many stories from guys older than me talking about the car or truck they wish they still had. So my truck will get taken care of and my Dodge Intrepid will take the beating of everyday driving.

 

[RStalnaker]

Hello, I am new here, this will be my first post. I would probably buy whatever had the cummins in it. That haveing been said, my ideal truck would be a Chevy with the Cummins, and if I couldn't drive a diesel I would drive a Chevy 454.

 

[CTaylor]

I like the Cummins but I also like the drivetrain in the 3 Dodges I have. My daily driver 2500 has a Dana 80 with a 11. 5" ring gear behind the 5 speed. Thats way more drive train than truck, and way more than furd or cheby has. I had a 7. 3 PSD in a F350 SRW and it was ok but the drivetrain was lacking even when compared to my 97 2500. With that said I like the Dodges, wouldnt own a Ford anymore and have no use for a cheby so make mine a Dodge