ZF Powerline for 2025 RAM HD Diesel

[AH64ID]

Im on multiple 4.5 gen forums daily and I haven’t seen any reports of window makers. Can’t be that big of a deal.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Could be that iron block means no more hydraulic lifters....???

 

[NIsaacs]

I'm also hoping that the Powerline is going to have a side mounted spin on oil filter, instead of some kind of integrated pan filter like there is on the 8HP75. On the Powerline, I'd like a dip stick and a side mounted spin on filter. Man, that would make servicing it a cats meow.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...2025-ram-hd-diesel.274759/page-5#post-2729012

https://paccarpowertrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/2024-TX-8-Brochure-Final-Digital-HiRes.pdf

https://paccarpowertrain.com/wp-con...2024-TX-8-Spec-Sheet-Final-Digital-Hi-Res.pdf


MAINTENANCE INTERVALS MAINTENANCE ITEM MI.
KM. Oil Change* 150,000 240,000
Oil Filter Lifetime

 

[NIsaacs]

I hope the Ram version gets this:

CREEP MODE

LOW MODE

 

[Grumpy8811]

One thing I do "kind of like" is the oil filter design, only because I like it on my EcoD. But, eh, old 2024 and prior was fine too. Hopefully they don't do what they did on the 3rd Gen EcoD, where the cap and filter are integrated. Seems like such a waste to throw away the cap, because the filter is permanently mounted in it.

I'm also hoping that the Powerline is going to have a side mounted spin on oil filter, instead of some kind of integrated pan filter like there is on the 8HP75. On the Powerline, I'd like a dip stick and a side mounted spin on filter. Man, that would make servicing it a cats meow.
.

those top mounted cartridge style oil filters are handy. my wife's car has one.. but its not a reason to buy a new vehicle, just because it takes a little less effort to change the oil. LOL.

I think all the auto transmission manufacturers are going away from a dipstick.. you are even starting to see it in the class 8 world.
Allison has had external spin on filters on their smaller transmission's for a long time now.It is a good idea.

Going back to why they dont have a dipstick or filler tube, Its not like very many people out there actually check the fluid or have it changed and these sealed transmission reflect that and also make it where even more people who may intend to service the transmission take it to someplace and pay instead of doing it their self.
..
I've come to the point I know I'm the outlier in that matter. right? I've dropped the pan on my 68RFE 4 times in 160k miles and replaced the fluid and filters.
They don't want me as a customer because I am not one.. Last time my truck saw a service center or dealer was when I bought it
Not like I buy OEM maintenance parts either. .

 

[AH64ID]

those top mounted cartridge style oil filters are handy. my wife's car has one.. but its not a reason to buy a new vehicle, just because it takes a little less effort to change the oil. LOL.

My wife’s rig has one too. I can’t say I’m a fan.

Going back to why they dont have a dipstick or filler tube, Its not like very many people out there actually check the fluid or have it changed and these sealed transmission reflect that and also make it where even more people who may intend to service the transmission take it to someplace and pay instead of doing it their self.

One of the reasons many transmissions are going away from a dipstick is that the modern fuel efficient fluids are hygroscopic and the units need to be 100% sealed.

It appears the ZF might use one of these fluids, but who knows what Ram will use until it’s released.

 

[Grumpy8811]

One of the reasons many transmissions are going away from a dipstick is that the modern fuel efficient fluids are hygroscopic and the units need to be 100% sealed.

It appears the ZF might use one of these fluids, but who knows what Ram will use until it’s released.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't think any automatic transmission can be completely sealed from the atmosphere, simply because it has to be able to breathe as it heats up and cools off and as the fluid expands due to heat or it would blow oil somewhere.. most oils are hygroscopic to some degree.. but internal heat tends to evaporate the miniscule amounts of moisture accumulated during regular operation..

 

[AH64ID]

I wouldn't think any automatic transmission can be completely sealed from the atmosphere, simply because it has to be able to breathe as it heats up and cools off and as the fluid expands due to heat or it would blow oil somewhere.. most oils are hygroscopic to some degree.. but internal heat tends to evaporate the miniscule amounts of moisture accumulated during regular operation..

Correct, but they use pressure activated breathers so the units can’t absorb water when cold, I.e. parked. So they can vent, but are sealed tight when not positively venting. Dipsticks aren’t a tight enough seal.

 

[sag2]

It is more a cost savings. Once filled you should never have to check fluid level unless a leak is noticed.

 

[NIsaacs]

Looks like the full reveal will be 1-07-25, I am so ready

https://hdrams.com/ram-teases-2025-2500-3500-heavy-duty-pickups-at-yellowstone/

 

[Diesel85]

Looks like the full reveal will be 1-07-25, I am so ready

https://hdrams.com/ram-teases-2025-2500-3500-heavy-duty-pickups-at-yellowstone/

Stellantis (high up) corporate is actually closed right now. They don't reopen till 1/6/2025. Interesting they are doing it the second day they open for the year.

Looking forward to seeing them in action. Hopefully we get some under hood shots and some under body shots. I'm really anxious to see the engine layout on the revised Cummins.

 

[Grumpy8811]

Correct, but they use pressure activated breathers so the units can’t absorb water when cold, I.e. parked. So they can vent, but are sealed tight when not positively venting. Dipsticks aren’t a tight enough seal.

aren't most breathers pressure activated in the sense there is almost always some type of check ball in them that vents or opens to the atmosphere with positive pressure
but remains sealed otherwise?

 

[AH64ID]

aren't most breathers pressure activated in the sense there is almost always some type of check ball in them that vents or opens to the atmosphere with positive pressure
but remains sealed otherwise?

They should be, but I’ve seen plenty that don’t work well

I’ve never noticed a vacuum built up in my Aisin (either of the models we own) when I pull the dipstick out, and if everything was sealed tight then I should.

 

[Grumpy8811]

They should be, but I’ve seen plenty that don’t work well

I’ve never noticed a vacuum built up in my Aisin (either of the models we own) when I pull the dipstick out, and if everything was sealed tight then I should.

other than something like a refrigerant system I doubt you will find anything mechanical that attempts to be 100 % hermetically sealed..

I doubt you would ever see a vacuum form on a transmission as the vent lets positive pressure out but there is no reason for the transmission to be sealed so tightly it would form a vacuum when it cools down... its not like the dipstick is so sealed air wont move past it.. only problem I have seen over the years with breathers seems to be an accumulation of dirt to the point they effectively seal their self or getting plugged up by petroleum based sludge and that happens mostly on differentials..

 

[AH64ID]

I doubt you would ever see a vacuum form on a transmission as the vent lets positive pressure out but there is no reason for the transmission to be sealed so tightly it would form a vacuum when it cools down... its not like the dipstick is so sealed air wont move past it..

Exactly why I understand transmissions with hygroscopic fluids don’t have a dipstick, as well as sag’s point that unless it’s leaking the fluid level is adequate and doesn’t need to be checked.

 

[Diesel85]

Exactly why I understand transmissions with hygroscopic fluids don’t have a dipstick, as well as sag’s point that unless it’s leaking the fluid level is adequate and doesn’t need to be checked.

If it is anything like the ZF 8 speeds in the current light duty and gasser HEMI HD, I'm not concerned.

In fact, it really isn't hard to check it. I mean, I was able to do the pan and fluid myself on my EcoD. Was it as easily as "drain and fill"... NO, but was it manageable? Absolutely.

Maybe the whole dipstick thing is blown out of proportion. Myself included.

 

[AH64ID]

If it is anything like the ZF 8 speeds in the current light duty and gasser HEMI HD, I'm not concerned.

In fact, it really isn't hard to check it. I mean, I was able to do the pan and fluid myself on my EcoD. Was it as easily as "drain and fill"... NO, but was it manageable? Absolutely.

Maybe the whole dipstick thing is blown out of proportion. Myself included.

Yeah the process is a little more time consuming, but it’s not horrible.

I remember when the Tacoma got the 5 speed auto in 05 that had the new fluid and no dipstick, the forums thought the sky was falling. Going on 20 years now and it’s not a big deal and fluids last so much longer that over time it’s still less maintenance hours.

 

[Ozymandias]

You simply don't need a dip stick if the transmission doesn't leak. We don't have dip sticks on axles or manual transmissions for a loooong time, why should we keep them on automatics? I don't see a need for them anymore.

 

[Tuesdak]

How many rigs have you owned that don't leak?! "It leaks a little" becomes a critical repair with an environmentally wasteful fluid change to get the level right after the repair.

First no dipstick transmission was in the middle of nowhere with a landline available around 2002. No Cell Service between the place and "home". Some POS throwaway GM car as a rental while my pickup is in for service. No transmission dipstick. Some prior renter parking curbed the transmission pan causing a good leak. Was there enough fluid left to make it "home" or back to the rental place? No Way To Know. I waited two hours for the hook rather than risk flagging down a motorist and hope they called my location in on the side of the road.

Hygroscopic transmission fluid, well, just ignore recent history of the surging, grabbing, and NVH problems GM's 8 speed transmission has with that fluid and now revised fluid flush and fill wasting your time while not solving the problem. It's now a proven bad idea to reach for something like that, period.

We don't have dip sticks on axles or manual transmissions

Yet we have a "fill plug" and a method to check the oil level.

Further fun is the electronic oil level system on Mercedes Van 4 cylinders. No dipstick. Waiting for the computer to update the oil level after adding a quart is said to be a real waiting game. Ok who checks the oil level, yes, a possible improvement. Just done horribly.

 

[Grumpy8811]

Exactly why I understand transmissions with hygroscopic fluids don’t have a dipstick, as well as sag’s point that unless it’s leaking the fluid level is adequate and doesn’t need to be checked.

all oils are hygroscopic to some extent it just isn't significant factor in most of them..

yeah, generally you dont add fluid to any transmission between service levels unless they leak.. so yeah you dont need to check it... problem is getting rid of the dipstick makes it more difficult for the average guy to change, add or check the oil level... I have two vehicles now with no trans dipstick, and since I change the fluid and filters in that sort of thing on a routine basis all the lack of a disptick accomplished was make it a little more difficult to replace the fluid.

I'll give you something my brother said ( he is employed at Borg Warner so they probably know a few things about trannies).
He said even in a sealed automatic transmission if it goes long enough and shifts enough times it will eventually consume some of the transmission fluid thru heat and evaporation simply because every time a clutch pack releases and engages their is some type of friction and heat and this will slowly "burn" off some of the fluid.
He wasn't implying that it was a very large amount but that slow fluid loss does happen in an otherwise sealed gear box.