2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission is it llegal?

[hummincummins2]

for quite some time i have been thinking about what mods i will be doing to my truck once i buy a 2nd gen next year. i have been thinking though, with all the guys i read about in the diesel power magizine saying they are daily drives with 800hp and 1,300lb-ft of torue. they must be blowing huge clouds of smoke. now i know this is not legal, so how do these/you guys get away with it??? i want to add lots of performance parts to my truck, but i dont want to get arrested.

how do you guys feel about this?

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

If you're blowing smoke like a freight train then you'll be getting a ticket. The key is going to be excellent injectors and turbo and the ability to turn things down. Things like a cam can help dramatically also. With that said I think some peoples idea of a daily driver is different than other peoples.

 

[JFlagg]

That, and I think you would be surprised how much these "daily drivers" actually get driven. Plus, most smoke can be controlled with your right foot. If you ease into the throttle, you can drive with alot of mods and not produce any smoke until you stomp the pedal to the floor. The guys with chips also have the option to "detune" their trucks to make them more streetable. Now a 800 HP 12V, thats pretty much 800HP all the time.

 

[hummincummins2]

will I be able to control smoke output?... as long as i dont put too many mods

 

[NoSeeUm]

That, and I think you would be surprised how much these "daily drivers" actually get driven. Plus, most smoke can be controlled with your right foot. If you ease into the throttle, you can drive with alot of mods and not produce any smoke until you stomp the pedal to the floor. The guys with chips also have the option to "detune" their trucks to make them more streetable. Now a 800 HP 12V, thats pretty much 800HP all the time.

Yeah... .



These guys might make some significant performance changes just to do the dyno, which is different from how the truck is driven on the street. They're are quite allot of trucks doing around 600 maximum Hp just running #2 diesel on the street. You might never know it by the smoke.



Pretty amazing engine.



FWIW to make 800 Hp ussually requires NOS, which actually cleans up smoke. Recently a 12v did 1200+ on a dyno using NOS. I understand he did 700+ just on diesel, then drove his truck back home.



Jim

 

[Joe G.]

Now a 800 HP 12V, thats pretty much 800HP all the time.

Not exactly. Most 12 valve mods ALLOW more fuel, but at normal running around throttle usage they are producing the same HP as stock. That is why a 800HP 12 valve will still get over 20 MPG.

 

[JFlagg]

Sorry about not being that clear, I was meaning that the non-12v can just hit a few buttons to detune. The 800HP 12v might have stock HP when running around, but when you put the pedal to the floor, you get full potential. With a later model you can put the pedal to the floor and have 800 HP and hit a few buttons, then put it to the floor again and only make, say, 5-600HP. Thats all I meant by that, no hard feelings I hope? I imagine, no matter what mods you have, at idle most trucks put out nearly stock HP at idle-lower throttle. Mainly, because it takes fuel and air to make power, at idle, you should have the lowest possible amount of fuel/air to keep running, ideally that is. Any extra power at idle would really be a waste if you are not using it. Though, how many people would like to claim, say, 400HP at idle?:-laf Just think where you power curve would go starting at that point

 

[hummincummins2]

im confused though, say if i buy a 12 valve (which i want to) and i put injectors, bigger turbo, straight pipe, bigger plate etc... medium mods like that, will i be blowing an excesive amount of smoke at 70mph? or only when i really lay into it?

 

[rweis]

My take:

Power = AIR + fuel.



Smoke = UNburned fuel, ie NOT enough air



If you go slightly overboard with the air and slightly underboard with the fuel you will have the best of both worlds and it will run really efficiently and cooler.



LOTS and LOTS of air + enough fuel (ie injectors) to do what you want to do.



I tow heavy and at full load towing cruise run about 850 - 900 EGT, acceleration (when the egt is the highest seldomly over 1000). I have A LOT of air (KSB1-B) and a moderate amount of fuel (DD2's). Keeps everything out of any possible heat issue.



I do have to state however, on the ETC shift into O/D I do have to watch the boost not being over 10# or I bark the turbine due to compressor pressure being higher than drive pressure. I think a tad more fuel might fix that, but very happy with 16. 8 mph (hand calculated) average over 77k miles empty + towing 13k about once / month.



I would figuer out the max turbine I wanted, then add the injectors to meet the air you have instead of the other way around.



Bob Weis

 

[JFlagg]

At normal acceleration(not racing or towing) you shouldn't blow much, if any smoke. I would say anything over half throttle, depending on RPM's though. It will depend on how big your injectors are and your turbo size and how fast it spools. The sooner your turbo starts to build boost, the sooner you will have a complete burn of however much fuel you are injecting. The key is to match your injector size to your turbo size. If you get mild injector and a huge turbo, you will have some smoke till you build enough boost to burn all the fuel. Get too big of injectors for the turbo and you have and you will have alot of smoke that may not clear up well even at full boost. As for the smoke at 70 mph, if you are cruising, you shouldn't have any smoke till you lay into it. And how much you have will reflect directly on what I mentioned above. Now, the above is basically laymans terms, there are alot of people on here that know alot more than me than can probably explain this in more detail, I was just trying to keep it as simple as possible( I confuse easily)

 

[JFlagg]

Rweis has it right, with a diesel you can't have too much air. But its obvious when you have too much fuel. Though some on here will ask how much fuel is too much?:-laf

 

[hummincummins2]

i think i get it now guys! thanks a lot!!!

i really appriciate it especially, JFlagg and reweis who took the extra effort and time in trying to explain to me why smoke comes out of the exhaust and how to reduce/increase the amount of it.

thank you

 

[JFlagg]

If you think about it like a gas motor, more air than fuel is lean. And more fuel than air is rich. When a diesel is "rich" you have smoke. When a gas motor is rich you really don't notice it visually. Though, the richer you run a diesel, the higher your exhaust gasses will be, and with a turbo you can only go so high. The more air you have, the cooler it will run.

 

[CRohwedder]

That is all very good info. Just would like to add one thing. If you get a 12v and throw all the goodies on it, get a valet switch, pdr and ats sells them. They will litereally cut your horse power in half with a flip of a switch. So if your 600 hp flip that switch and you can be around 300hp. Great for what you want to do, drive it on the road and not cause a solar eclipse, unless you want to.

 

[paulb]

Easy recipe... Add air to keep EGT's and smoke down. Then add fuel until the smake and EGT's start to get out of hand. Repeat until out of money.



P-Pumped 12 valves will typically make more smoke at the same hp level then 24 valve engines will. Mostly due to lower injection pressures, and static timing. However with a "valet switch", you can easily control the smoke for daily driving, as long as you don't go overboard on injector size. You can do a search on valet switch, and see how it helps.



Paul

 

[Moose Truck]

Should be a part of "FAQ", How 'bout it Moderators???

I am thinking that this thread should be posted to the top of this forum, due to the Diesel Hot-Rodding 101 content. Good Post Fellows!!! Oo.





Moose