Competition Mr headgasket wants 14mm stud torque

[bluthndr]

Suggestions on what you guys with fire rings in the head use?



How many steps? Final value? Hot or cold retorques? after the first couple retorques, how often do you check them/retorque them? The reason I post on here is that every shop seemed to have a different way for the 12mms...



Thanks in advance

 

[DRadzierez]

Suggestions on what you guys with fire rings in the head use?



How many steps? Final value? Hot or cold retorques? after the first couple retorques, how often do you check them/retorque them? The reason I post on here is that every shop seemed to have a different way for the 12mms...



Thanks in advance

50 ft lbs increments

ending at 150 ft lbs short,160 ft lbs med. ,and 170 ft lbs long

install bring engine to temp. ,and retorque

I retorque every 4 runs or when ever I got the covers off

 

[Forrest Nearing]

always retorque cold

 

[DRadzierez]

yes,I forgot to add that after the 1st retorque it is torqued cold after that

 

[bluthndr]

Hot or cold first retorque?

Just so I understand correctly, what's the consensus on the first retorque? Hot or Cold?

 

[DRadzierez]

I always to my 1st retorque hot.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

cylinder head fastener torque values are "cold"



the cylinder head will expand slightly when hot and will apply more pressure to the head gasket as the fasteners stretch that much more.



if you retorque hot, you're not getting the correct clamping force at temperature



now, you could add whatever amount of torque is required to make up for that stretch, but I wouldn't know how to calculate it, and I wouldn't want to be leaning over a 200* engine retorquing studs either

 

[AMassaro]

After speaking with ARP directly a few times, it was explained to me that after a third retorque the studs have "freed up" all their friction which is what the retorquing is really all about. At this time you have the truest torque reading and the stud has stretched it's max amount. It will not stretch anymore.

Exact direction as given to me by ARP tech named Al is torque everyfastener to 125lbs. Loosen one full turn and retorque back to 125lbs one at a time. Third time and you're done. It won't stretch anymore. Any hot or cold cycles will not stretch it anymore. I know this is highly discussed here and elsewhere, but I'm going to go with the ARP instructions as they know their products better than any of us. This is for 12mm not 14mm, btw.

 

[WShupe]

I always do my 1st retorque hot.

I would take this advice, from someone who is running them, on a high boost application no less.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

I dip mine in tiger blood before I install them

 

[Jetpilot]

After speaking with ARP directly a few times, it was explained to me that after a third retorque the studs have "freed up" all their friction which is what the retorquing is really all about. At this time you have the truest torque reading and the stud has stretched it's max amount. It will not stretch anymore.

Exact direction as given to me by ARP tech named Al is torque everyfastener to 125lbs. Loosen one full turn and retorque back to 125lbs one at a time. Third time and you're done. It won't stretch anymore. Any hot or cold cycles will not stretch it anymore. I know this is highly discussed here and elsewhere, but I'm going to go with the ARP instructions as they know their products better than any of us. This is for 12mm not 14mm, btw.

There is more to this than what ARP is talking about..... With o-rings or fire-rings the heat cycles make a difference. I just did a truck tonight that had plenty of cylces on the engine, retorqued head to same value and all the valves were tight and needed adjusting.

 

[JTEdieselram]

I put an arp set on mine, 12mm, Head has haisley fire rings. 1st pass tq to 35 ftlb, second pass tq to 65 ftlb, 3rd, 85ftlb, 4th 100 ftlb 5th 120 ftlb (using ARP molly lube on the threads) warm the engine up, retorque to 120 ftlb (the studs loostened up quite a bit once the rings heated and settled) pain in the but to retorqie cuz you gotta remove the injection lines, but better than having it break! I have re torqued mine twice

 

[DRadzierez]

After speaking with ARP directly a few times, it was explained to me that after a third retorque the studs have "freed up" all their friction which is what the retorquing is really all about. At this time you have the truest torque reading and the stud has stretched it's max amount. It will not stretch anymore.

Exact direction as given to me by ARP tech named Al is torque everyfastener to 125lbs. Loosen one full turn and retorque back to 125lbs one at a time. Third time and you're done. It won't stretch anymore. Any hot or cold cycles will not stretch it anymore. I know this is highly discussed here and elsewhere, but I'm going to go with the ARP instructions as they know their products better than any of us. This is for 12mm not 14mm, btw.

But does arp know what our fire rings/o-rings are doing?Any major shop will tell you to do the 1st retorque hot then the rest cold. It works for me and Im way over 100 psi.

 

[AMassaro]

I should have clarified my statements have nothing to do with firerings or orings. What I was quoting was for removing stock bolts and replacing with studs with mls gasket. My fault...

 

[DRadzierez]

I should have clarified my statements have nothing to do with firerings or orings. What I was quoting was for removing stock bolts and replacing with studs with mls gasket. My fault...

no problem,I was just makeing a point that although they know what there studs do,they do not always know what we are doing with there studs.

 

[bluthndr]

I dip mine in tiger blood before I install them

Awesome:-laf

 

[bluthndr]

Good points Dave. I just got it put back together. It is warming up now. Gonna take a gentle drive to the gas station in town and get some fresh fuel, then torque it down hot. After that, drive it a couple hundred miles and do it again cold. Thanks for all the help and advice everyone - I feel like maybe I am done changing head gaskets & rings every month!



For anyone reading this thread thinking about doing this or going through it, I will try and post a few things on a new thread on my observations concerning 12mm vs 14mm studs, fire rings, and actually doing all the work...