Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Has DaimlerChrysler Taken You For a Ride?

[SnoKing]

Are you saying that at 119,000 Dodge agreed to warranty your pump by supplying you with a rebuilt you could put in yourself? How did you convince your dealer to do this? This is important to a lot of us, especially myself,as my second VP44 is acting up on my 02 (purchase in 01).

Thomas went to the dealer and had his replaced. They charged him for the repair and later issued a check minus 100 for his cost.



I (Snoking) went to a dealer at 52K and 5. 7 years, and request warranty coverage on the VP44 which was showing dead pedal and Po216. They said that I was out of warranty. I show them the warranty book and dealer said "sorry DC computer says". I filled out the online Customer Assistance form and emailed back and forth many times. I then informed DC that I was going to replace it myself and file a claim for warranty refund. At no point did they tell me to return the vehicle to the dealer.



I then sent a demand letter and they said sorry, and second demand letter included dates and asked them to to explain where in the warranty booket is says that the 5/100 Cummins starts at the in service date, as page 12 says it starts at the end of the 3/36 basic warranty. They again stonewalled without answering the question.



I filed a complaint with the Washington State Attorney General and have a case number BEL -269117. The Complaint Analyst is in the process of contacting DC and I should be hearing back from him in another week or two.



Thomas has documented this Cummins Engine Warranty issue quite well.



A friend who has been a paralegal for many years, says the DC does not have a leg to stand on, given the way they wrote the Warranty Information Booket, which is the only true valid warranty.



SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

I was under the impression that the 5/100k warranty started at time of new purchase.



Cummins stepped up to the plate in those other applications because THEY were the company that warrantied them. When Chrysler buys the Cummins engines, they buy them without end-user warranty and handle the warranty themselves.



granted, many of those other applications may have been out of warranty, but Cummins wasn't "required" to step up to the plate in those instances, and I'm willing to bet that none of those engines were modified outside of OEM configuration and had perfect service records.

All warranties begin at in service date unless there is a clear statement that it or parts of it start at a different time.



Read page 12 of your Warranty Information Booket. "Cummins Engine warranty begins at the end of the 3/36 basic warranty". I also asked DC if this page of the book was in error, why in the last 6 years have they not informed me of the error and sent a new warranty booket. They did not answer that question either! The same verbage is in the bookets for 6 or 7 years.



SNOKING

 

[LTustison]

when my vp44 went at 101,600 , it was a catastrophic failure, no warning at all just dead. I didn't have a code reader at the time,but was sure it was the vp44. this very event caused me to find and join this registry. the shop that i took it to said I needed to replace the lift pump also, cost of $420. they installed a rebuilt pump form dodge. at 18K+ there were codes coming up, 216 and maybe others, don't remember. I called thre shop that did the work. he called dodge and said it was 100k or 12 months warranty. I was at 12 months, 3 days. I called dodge, looking for a replacement pump to buy and commented to the parts man that I was not happy since this pump was 3 days over 12 months old( truck was still driving fine, except the annoying ck engine light) he asked who installed it and knew this shop well. he would get back to me. the shop called me and said the 216 code could be 1 of 3 items, loose nut on injection pump, clogged fuel filter or pump ready to die. I checked the nut, checked pressure at lift pump, which was in spec and then changed the filter, erased codes. later that day the ck engine light came on again with a 216. I called the man at dodge and told him what I had done. He called me back to say dodge would supply a replacement pump for a $100 warranty fee. I opted to have it done at the shop as before. they did not suggest I replace the lift pump this time. so far, all is well at 155k+ miles, now out of warranty any way you read it.

is there a case for reimbursement after the fact, as work was not done by dodge?

 

[Thomas]

My 99 lost thr VP44 at101,600. I had it replace by a local shop, who put in a dodge pump replacement. Do you think I could go back to dodge for the cost of replacement? . . .

There is a bit more information needed:

• What was the date/mileage on the truck when the Basic Warranty ended?
• What was the date when the original VP44 died?
• Do you have any documentation to show that you took the truck to an authorized Chrysler Motors dealer and were denied work that should have been warrantied?

Your 1999 Warranty Information booklet contains the following: Except in emergencies (see 4. 2), only an authorized Chrysler Motors dealer may perform warranty service on your truck.

 

[LTustison]

There is a bit more information needed:

• What was the date/mileage on the truck when the Basic Warranty ended?
  
• What was the date when the original VP44 died?
  
• Do you have any documentation to show that you took the truck to an authorized Chrysler Motors dealer and were denied work that should have been warrantied? Your 1999 Warranty Information booklet contains the following: Except in emergencies (see 4. 2), only an authorized Chrysler Motors dealer may perform warranty service on your truck
  
  
  
  date was around march 2001( i could find exact if needed) when 3/36K basic warranty expired
  
  the original VP44 died on 6-14-04 at101,696 miles
  
  I have no documentation, since I also thought warranty was concurrent and took it to a recommended local shop, since I was going to pay the bill anyway. sounds like I screwed up?

 

[Thomas]

My layman's thoughts are that by not giving DaimlerChrysler a chance to honor their express warranty you have no where to go on this one.

 

[SnoKing]

My layman's thoughts are that by not giving DaimlerChrysler a chance to honor their express warranty you have no where to go on this one.

My case is going to be interesting, as I gave DC a chance to set up and fix it under warranty, which they refused. I then informed them that I was ordering a re-manufacture VP44 and installing it myself and was going to make claim under the warranty. At no point did they say take it back to the dealer! I am currently in the phase of a complaint with the Washington State Attorney Generals office. See post with DRATS in the title.



They will not and can not show you in the Warranty Booket where it says the 5/100 Cummins engine warranty begins at the inservice date.



SNOKING

 

[mediccummin]

I have an lawyer looking into the 53 block issue, He says we have a class action, will meet with him again next week. Any input would be great.

 

[AKaiser]

In Class Action suits the lawyers win big and the Class gets pennys... #@$%!

True, but a point gets across, and the corp loses money and prestige.

 

[AKaiser]

The problem with the VP44 injection pump has little to do with any modifications an owner may have made,the pumps were/are failing on emergency vehicles,fleets and any Cummins that had the VP44 especially,it seems,for the 01 and 02 model Dodges. . The fuel pump also fails regularly.

Right. From everything I've read here, there and everywhere, it's the lift pump going weak-kneed that causes the VP44 failure. My supply sergeant bought a 98. 5 when he got back from the 'stan. I told him what he had, to put a pressure gauge between the pumps, and replace the LP when it started to get weak (if it hasn't already).

 

[BCirone]

I took my truck to dodge today, I was getting lose of power and doing all the things when LP is going bad, well they told me it was out of warranty, 78150m and the LP AND INJECTOR PUMP WAS BAD=$3000+, so I called D/C corp. armed with "MR THOMAS'S PROMISES" the gal at corp. ACTUALLY agreed that the warranty said AT THE END OF THE 3YR/36MOS. THE 5YR/100,000 STARTS , BUT THEY COULD ONLY OFFER TO REPLACE THE PARTS AND I WOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR THE LABOR, I did not have but a few reciepts,but I didn't bring it up,If I had the recepts I would have fought them all the way. moral of this story, KEEP ALL RECIEPTS AND WRITE DOWN ALL THAT IS DONE TO YOUR VEHICLE!



PS I really did not fight with them that much, I prayed alot too. my cost=$680



thanks to all bc

__________________

update: when I picked up th truck at the dealer, they agreed 100% that the engine warranty covers 8yrs/136,000m thanks to all before me that took the time to do their homework, thanks again bc the dealer is "TOM ADDIS DODGE IN Coeur D'alene Idaho 83815

 

[SnoKing]

Hey Thomas read this:

Cummins Every Time - Dodge Ram - 610 Turbo Diesel - Base Warranty And Extended Coverage

SNOKING

 

[Thomas]

I did read that—four days after I started this thread. It showed up in a lively warranty discussion on another forum. The power of the internet I guess.

Thanks for posting it here. Cummins Inc. seems capable of reading the simple language in the current warranty, language that is but slightly changed from the second-generation 24-valve warranty. I imagine that if Dr. Dieter Zetsche, mustache and all, had read it and had a problem with it Cummins Inc would take it down.

BCirone seems to have been successful with his VP44 warranty pursuit. It would be great to have some indication of how many other Cummins owners have not taken "the warranty was done at 5 years/100000 miles" or "the computer shows" as the truth and have had D/C honor the warranty as it is written.

 

[MA2LA]

Ok heres a twist on it. what about extended warentys that you purchace? if there can be considered basic warenty for the warenty on the motor to be added to i would be covered for 200k. Another thing and i don't have the bok infront of me right now, Is that when myy 99 died do to the vp44 pooping out they tried to say that the warenty only covered the basic long block and that the injetion was not covered. Its been awhile since I had the problem so its hard to remember but i'm glad i had bigger tires on my truck and never changed the speed-o . the pump died at 99,860 miles so if it wasn't for the bigger tires i would have been over the 100k mark.

 

[SnoKing]

From the 1999 Warranty Booket online. See post #1



2. 6 Cummins Diesel Engine Limited

Warranty

A. When It Begins

If your truck is equipped with a Cummins Diesel

Engine, the Cummins Diesel Engine Limited

Warranty begins at the end of the 3/36 Basic

Warranty period, and covers the cost of repairing

those parts of your truck engine listed that are

defective in materials, workmanship, or factory

preparation.



B. Parts Covered for 5 Years or 100,000 Miles

In trucks equipped with a Cummins Diesel Engine,

ONLY the following engine parts and components

are covered for 5 years or 100,000 miles, whichever

occurs first:

• cylinder block and all internal parts

• cylinder head assemblies

• core plugs

• fuel injection pump & injectors

• gaskets and seals for listed components

• intake and exhaust manifold

• oil pan

• oil pump

• timing gear drive belts and/or chains and cover

• turbocharger housing and internal parts

• valve covers

• water pump and housing



SNOKING

 

[KYODER]

All this information is great.

Here are my warranty woes. I bought the "Diesel Wrap Warranty",5yr/100,000mi, which was advertised and verbally told to me that it covered everything, bumper to bumper. So when I took my 99 2500 in for many items. Truck seems to have lost power when towing. Stereo/cd player, power locks, and windows blowing fuses. Rear hub seals leaking, Transfercase leaking out front and rear seals. And a bad track bar joint.



Head service man tells me that probable most items will not be covered. And I have to pay for the diagnostics. I said I will not pay more than the $50 deductable as stated in my warranty. He told me whatever and asked me to sign the work order with the clerk. So when I signed my name I wrote "I will not pay more than $50 for any work, parts or labor to be done at this shop/dealership" and then had the clerk sign it so she knew it was written.

They call me when my truck was done and when I picked it up. The only items repaired were the TC seals and they installed a new lift pump.



Nothing else was covered I was told. Even though it says all drivetrain and seals on truck. He showed me that they consider the rear hub seals to be BRAKE seals and of course brakes aren't covered.



Then when I went to pay I was given a $1200 invoice to pay. Labor and Diagnostics. I showed them my statement where I authorized the work and they argued with me for about five minutes and then agreed, I was within my rights to do that.

truck was 83,000 and 4 years old at that point.



I contacted DC about all this and was stonewalled liked everyone else. I just gave up after two months.



Won't ever pay for extented warranty again.



Other than those issues I have 190,000 miles on truck and original VP44 just started acting up. Truck wont restart after it has been running more than 5 minutes.



KYODER

 

[AKaiser]

From the 1999 Warranty Booket online.



Cummins Diesel Engine Limited

Warranty begins at the end of the 3/36 Basic

Warranty period, and covers the cost of repairing

those parts of your truck engine listed that are

defective in materials, workmanship, or factory

preparation.

I think the bolded (by me) wording pretty much sums it up. They (Cummins) cover the labor, since that's part of the "cost of repairing. " If the Dodge Dealer is trying to get us to pay, they're either getting 2x the $$$ or more, or just aren't doing their job in billing Cummins for the warranty work.

 

[Thomas]

. . . They (Cummins) cover the labor . . .

Cummins Inc. sells the engines to D/C without warranty. I doubt you'll find Cummins covering anything.

 

[Gregg Mig]

I have an 02 I bought new, it came with the 3/36 7/100,000 . Does this mean that my engine is covered for 10/ 136,000? Also what about the drive train, last year I had new sychros put in my NV5600 and it was covered under warranty, I did have to pay a $100 deductable.

 

[SnoKing]

I have an 02 I bought new, it came with the 3/36 7/100,000 . Does this mean that my engine is covered for 10/ 136,000? Also what about the drive train, last year I had new sychros put in my NV5600 and it was covered under warranty, I did have to pay a $100 deductable.

It is my understanding that the 7/100 extends the 3/36 powertrain to 7/100. I do not see anything in the 2002 warranty booket that addresses the 7/100. You should maybe have received something about it in your owners papers. That would be a good question for a dealer. Stop by a dealer and have them run a VIP summary. There is a line for for the basic 3/36 and another for the powertrain. In my case they both show 3/36. I would note that the warranty booket does not separate the basic warranty from the powertrain warranty, but the VIP report does. If you do not have anything in writing, then they have wiggle room to stonewall, which they are very good at. I would get and file a copy of the VIP report if it shows the powertrain at 7/100. SNOKING