Towing capacities

[HBarlow]

Casey,

You are correct. I thought Newmar had gone out of business with the other top end products. Perhaps they suspended production for awhile then restarted like NuWa (HitchHiker) did.

If Newmar is still building the same quality fifth wheels at they were before and you are willing to pay the price you probably can't go wrong with one. However, the real Newmar requires a MDT for safe and comfortable towing. I don't know what their current GVWRs are but the previous models were well beyond what I'd want to tow with a Ram 3500 dually.

I noticed when I scanned their website they are returning to the old names like Kountry Aire better identified with Newmar.

 

[HHhuntitall]

After reading through this column, I thought I'd drop my five cents..... I use my trucks well over what they are expected and rated to do. As a Cummins, they hold up to it fairly well, given they are not designed to do most of what I'm doing with them. For example, several of my 2nd gens are rigged up with a steel bed and T&S Trip Hopper feeder for feeding cattle. These trucks, with a full 1000lbs of feed in the hopper weigh in over 11,000lbs. Two other trucks I have, a 2nd gen and a 3rd, have bale mover beds on them, which are heavy to begin with. Add two large round bales of hay, and the trucks top 15k lbs without a trailer. That's quite a bit over the trucks rated capacity. They hold up very well, given most of their miles are off road. But it all comes with a cost. When I finally am done with a truck, it is for spare parts only. The cabs have come apart at the seams, there have been frame separations, window breakage from flex, and countless part replacements and upgrades. I use these trucks up, literally. It is rare that many of my feed trucks see 300k miles, as they just can't take it. And realize, many of these miles are in 2nd or 3rd gear in dusty, brushy pastures, so even the engines need overhauls. My point here is, they trucks can take it only so long. The harder you overload them, the shorter the life expectancy. But they are still the toughest darn light duty trucks on the face of the planet, and for the money, are the best truck for the working man. But if you want to get the most miles possible out of it, don't overload it, as Barlow nailed it when he basically stated the manufacturer lists the load ratings as the maximum loads to keep the truck together as long as possible. Over the limit shortens it's life drastically, and can make for a dangerous situation. It's better to be safe in those situations, and just go with a Peterbilt or Kenworth.....



God bless.

 

[retirednak]

I don't know if the "new" line of Newmar fifth wheels hold a hair to their older campers. That can't be answered by me for sure,that why I want to tour the factory. We like the TPFW 37RKSK model,but... ... ... the dry weight is 15,525 LBS with a hitch weight at 2950 lbs. With those kind of weights,I believe its a touch too much trailer for my truck. I don't want to go any shorter then 37 ft,so I have some thinking to do. I did check out a C&C Quad cab work truck at the dealership when I test drove a new SRT Challenger. What a scarey fast car! I want one so bad I can taste it.

Back to the C&C, how much rougher of a ride do the 4x4 trucks have? I've had 4 back surgeries and my truck puts the "I don't want go any further" on our roads up here. I know a C&C isn't a vehicle that would be a daily driver,but the ride quality and seat comfort is a major concern for me. I have driven a new 4x4 dually and what a difference compared to my '03. I'm sure a 2 wd has a much better ride compared to the 4x4 and the fuel economy difference would also be a plus. The dealership told me they don't sell many C&C and have never sold a Laramie. So it looks like I'll have to look at those while looking at the fifth wheel factories.

 

[HBarlow]

The so-called "dry weight" and kingpin weights published by the manufacturer are useless bits of information intended intentionally to deceive.

The only number you get from a manufacturer that gives you any useful information is the gross vehicle weight rating, GVWR. If you use a big trailer like that for extended use it will weigh in very close to that figure. The kingpin weight will be 20% of that number, perhaps more if you buy one with a generator installed. A 37' Newmar if built like the old ones will have a gross weight of at least 18,000 lbs. 20% is 4,000 lbs. Even using the dry weights you mentioned, 15,250#, you know a big trailer like that, designed and built for extended use, will be capable of carrying a minimum of 2,750 lbs. of "stuff. " GVWR might be 19,000 or even 21,000 lbs.

The minimum light truck that can pull that trailer will be a Ram 4500 C&C. A Ram 5500 offers no advantage for an RVer, only disadvantages. The unloaded ride of a 5500 will jar your teeth out and shake your kidney stones loose. Other than rear springs and GVWR and another differential gearing choice the 4500 and 5500 Rams are identical.

My 3500 C&C offers an excellent and comfortable ride as a daily driver, only a very small degree more choppy or bouncy than a 3500 pick up. The 4500 is significantly stiffer unloaded but would ride and drive very nicely with a heavy aftermarket towing bed, tools, fuel, and the kingpin weight of a big fiver.

Edit: Forgot to answer. I don't think a 4x4 C&C will ride any stiffer than a 4x2 C&C because all C&Cs use the 4wd chassis and front end. The 2wd omits axle shafts, differential, front driveshaft, and transfer case.

 

[RVTRKN]

The dealership told me they don't sell many C&C and have never sold a Laramie. So it looks like I'll have to look at those while looking at the fifth wheel factories.

Yes, they are extremely rare in the SLT or better trim. I know by first hand experience, my C&C is an SLT ordered by me with NAV, SAT & U-connect. The bed I purchased for my C&C manufactured by B&W, also sponsors the Professional Rodeo circuit and teamed up with Dodge. Perhaps you have seen a Dodge C&C with the B&W Elite flat bed with the Rodeo graphics on the truck, very impressive. HBarlow mentioned about a heavy bed to mellow the leaf springs, well that is the bed for you. Very functional with lots of storage space, but also light enough that wont take away too much from your GVWR. My 3500 C&C with the B&W bed, weighs at #9300 GVW empty, which leaves plenty of room for a heavy pin weight on the rear axle. However if I were to tow a Car Hauler, I would remove it and just Bob Tail it when not towing to help increase the load capacity. Here is the link B&W Custom Truck Beds, Inc. Top quality bed but top quality price as well. The Rodeo Circuits Main Sponsor is Dodge so you might try to find a Rodeo that might have the bed and C&C you would like. The C&C's I saw in Vegas at the Rodeo finals had the B&W bed on fully loaded Laramie's, what a beautiful truck. That was the deciding factor for me when I choose the bed for my C&C. I would attach a picture of my rig, but I lost all of them in my crashed hard drive, but if you open the link for B&W, they have the Rodeo truck in their pics.

 

[RVTRKN]

I think this will work for the pic

 

[retirednak]

That's a sharp looking bed and the whole truck looks sharp. The color doesn't do much for me though.



I did a little more reading about the trailer we want.



GAWR 9,000

Dry weight GVWR 19,000

App Dry weight 15,525

App Hitch weight 2,950



Grey Water Cap 97 gal= 808 LBS + or -

Fresh Water Cap 75 gal= 625 LBS + or -

Sewage Cab 55 gal= 459 LBS + or -



And perhaps 3,000 LBS for personal items. (wild guess) Our kids are gone,so its my wife and I and our Smooth Fox Terrier Commanche Storm.



Can any of you pro's give me an idea how far away I am hauling this with my truck,if this is enough info?

Thanks-Casey

 

[HBarlow]

The kingpin weight on the 19,000 lb. trailer you like would be 20% of 19,000# or more depending on axle positioning and optional equipment details. An Onan generator adds several hundred pounds and is normally installed in the front of the belly storage compartment.

It is POSSIBLE to haul it with your Ram 3500 but you would probably soon hate it and prefer to stay at home. Addition of Timbrens or air bags, 4. 10 gears, a DTT buillt transmission, an exhaust brake, and a MaxBrake controller would make it perform more acceptably but by the time you've made all those changes you would have spent enough money to trade your truck for what you need.

The minimum truck needed for that trailer would be a Ram 4500. A 4500 would do a good job pulling it but the factory specified gross combined weight rating on all '11 Ram cab and chassis models, 3500, 4500, and 5500 is now 26,000 lbs. Any of the C&Cs with a heavy steel bed, tools, hitch, and an auxilliary fuel tank would weigh around 10k loaded for the road so total weight of truck and trailer would exceed factory GCWR. A 4500 would be DOT legal if properly registered but would exceed Dodge's factory ratings. My truck slightly exceeds GCWR.

To put things in perspective, it is "possible" to adapt an ordinary 1/2 ton pickup for towing a big heavy fifth wheel but performance would be so poor and unsafe it would make the effort useless.

If you are going to spend the kind of money required to own a trailer like you are interested in for extensive travel as I assume you are planning why take a short cut with a marginal truck that would make the results undesirable?

IF a compromise must be made, and we all must make them, I strongly recommend compromise on the trailer, not the tow vehicle, unless you will be a fulltimer only moving the trailer two or three times a year and spending months at a time in preferred locations.

The B&W tow bed is indeed an attractive and very well constructed piece by an excellent company although priced accordingly. Before you get starry-eyed about one take a moment to notice the upward sloped bed sides. The B&W bed is designed for towing gooseneck trailers. Clearance between the bottom of the front overhang and top of the forward portion of the bed when pulling a fifth wheel trailer can be marginal with a B&W bed when performing tight maneuvers over uneven surfaces. A flat surface tow bed is usually a better choice.

 

[RVTRKN]

The B&W tow bed is indeed an attractive and very well constructed piece by an excellent company although priced accordingly.













Before you get starry-eyed about one take a moment to notice the upward sloped bed sides. The B&W bed is designed for towing gooseneck trailers. Clearance between the bottom of the front overhang and top of the forward portion of the bed when pulling a fifth wheel trailer can be marginal with a B&W bed when performing tight maneuvers over uneven surfaces. A flat surface tow bed is usually a better choice.

First statement is absolutely correct.













Second statement is not correct, here are some pictures I managed to save.



Two negatives about the B&W bed is the weight & hight of the bed. However the 5ver your considering will sit level, and B&W can recess the area where the very capable Companion 5th wheel hitch would sit, if requested. They gave me the option to recess the hitch but I needed the bed for my AC contracting business.

 

[retirednak]

.



The minimum truck needed for that trailer would be a Ram 4500. A 4500 would do a good job pulling it but the factory specified gross combined weight rating on all '11 Ram cab and chassis models, 3500, 4500, and 5500 is now 26,000 lbs. Any of the C&Cs with a heavy steel bed, tools, hitch, and an auxilliary fuel tank would weigh around 10k loaded for the road so total weight of truck and trailer would exceed factory GCWR. A 4500 would be DOT legal if properly registered but would exceed Dodge's factory ratings. My truck slightly exceeds GCWR.



.





IF a compromise must be made, and we all must make them, I strongly recommend compromise on the trailer, not the tow vehicle, unless you will be a fulltimer only moving the trailer two or three times a year and spending months at a time in preferred locations.



The B&W tow bed is indeed an attractive and very well constructed piece by an excellent company although priced accordingly. Before you get starry-eyed about one take a moment to notice the upward sloped bed sides. The B&W bed is designed for towing gooseneck trailers. Clearance between the bottom of the front overhang and top of the forward portion of the bed when pulling a fifth wheel trailer can be marginal with a B&W bed when performing tight maneuvers over uneven surfaces. A flat surface tow bed is usually a better choice.

It appears I'll be looking at new trucks also. I want to be able to hook up and go without having to worry about anything. I'm tired of compromising and might as well do it right the first time. My truck has only 100K miles on it and should have lots of miles left in it. But with those kind of miles,I'm to start to invest some serious cash just to drive it every day. My transmission is shot,the same goes for the front end,gonna need new tires and a few other things. The friggin money will be flying out of my wallet. I'd rather have a newer truck if I'm going to be traveling all over the lower 48. I know we have a couple strickly med duty dealerships and I might as well see what else is available out there.



There is a business in Anchorage that makes some nice tow beds and will make any kind of bed that a person might want. I prefer to spend my money supporting AK businesses,rather then going outside to buy.



I want to thank you for all the advice you've given me. Its nice to get advice from someone that's pulled heavy for a living.

 

[HBarlow]

It is always a pleasure to discuss travel trailers and my favorite brand of trucks, Dodge Rams.

If you want to continue discussing details as you consider trailer options feel free to ask. I have lots of advice to offer, all valued at exactly what you'll pay for it. Some would say it's worth even less than that.

 

[FDrake]

I agree with HBarlow, it you are going to have to adapt that 1T truck for that size trailer ( and you will! ), you would be better served by going to any make 4500 or 5500 series truck. That is way too much trailer for a 1T truck.

Good luck.

Frank

 

[RVTRKN]

First statement is absolutely correct.













Second statement is not correct, here are some pictures I managed to save.



Two negatives about the B&W bed is the weight & hight of the bed. However the 5ver your considering will sit level, and B&W can recess the area where the very capable Companion 5th wheel hitch would sit, if requested. They gave me the option to recess the hitch but I needed the bed for my AC contracting business.

macdaddy check post #29 for pics.

 

[macdaddy]

macdaddy check post #29 for pics.

I enjoyed the pics Steve. Hell I'd love to have that bed and I dont even have a fiver. I have always liked the heavy hauling look those style beds offer.



It was nice talking with you, and thanks for the help with my sons new truck.



Mac

 

[CUMMINZ]

I just recieved a brochure on the Torrey Pine line by NEWMAR a few days ago,I thought they were out of business also. I'm waiting on a brochure from NuWa. Your right about the luxury line being gone,most of what we've seen are for the weekend camping crews. If we can't find what we're looking for,we may step up to a class A w/Cummins power. That is if my wife doesn't change my mind again. :-laf I would really like to find a luxury 5ver that I could also carry a side by side UTV in. Most of the toy haulers up here are strickly weekend rigs that are nice enough,but are no where near what one would call luxury. I doubt I'll find anything like I want,so I'll have to make up something I can drive up the side of the bed and haul it there. Sled Bed makes something like this,I've seen a couple 5 vers from the lower 48 with something like this.

You can't go wrong with a Torrey Pine. We have been looking at one of them for several years. It has great lines and quality.

 

[retirednak]

There is not much of a chance of us seeing a Torrey Pine up here unless a tourist is dragging one up here and I can flag them down. But our season is slowly coming to a close and we'll have to wait till next spring when we fly out of here.