2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Hi Idle

[AH64ID]

The TSB I have seen doesn't show the CC buttons working for fast idle.

The cruise control only works on 3rd gens with the cruise control buttons below, the early 03's with the early CC buttons don't get to control it with their CC, just the automatic feature.

#ad

 

[JR]

Thanks Cerb I will have to dig into that a little more. Ive got the control of the high idle by a toggle switch, but I have to throw the toggle before I start the truck. Once its been running if I decide I want to activate it, Ive got to shut the truck back down and wait for a minute to allow the ecm to read the different values Im throwing at it. Not really a big deal as the majority of the time when you want/need high idle is when you first start the truck anyway, but it would be neat if I could gain the ability to idle up anytime I choose without shutting the truck down.

 

[PC12Driver]

Can anyone provide a link to an old thread where that was discussed?

Here ya go, Harv: http://dodgeram. info/tsb/2001/18-019-01.htm



That's the only ECM-based high idle available for the Cummins in the Dodge application for the 98. 5-2002 trucks. There's no manually adjustable idle available from our ECMs. For that, you'd need to build something to fool the APPS or put a turnbuckle between the dash and throttle. The Dodge ECM is pretty crippled compared to the official Cummins ISB ECM, which has twice the pins and full pto idle-up capability.

 

[HBarlow]

Here ya go, Harv: http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2001/18-019-01.htm

That's the only ECM-based high idle available for the Cummins in the Dodge application for the 98. 5-2002 trucks. There's no manually adjustable idle available from our ECMs. For that, you'd need to build something to fool the APPS or put a turnbuckle between the dash and throttle. The Dodge ECM is pretty crippled compared to the official Cummins ISB ECM, which has twice the pins and full pto idle-up capability.

Thanks for the link. I wish I had known about that years ago when I bought the crappy aftermarket add-in device that contained a potentiometer and wires connecting it to the APPS module.

 

[mwilson]

Here ya go, Harv: http://dodgeram. info/tsb/2001/18-019-01.htm



That's the only ECM-based high idle available for the Cummins in the Dodge application for the 98. 5-2002 trucks. There's no manually adjustable idle available from our ECMs. For that, you'd need to build something to fool the APPS or put a turnbuckle between the dash and throttle. The Dodge ECM is pretty crippled compared to the official Cummins ISB ECM, which has twice the pins and full pto idle-up capability.

Yeah buddy, that 50 pin ECM on the 2nd gens compared to the 100 pin ECM on the 3rd gens is like putting a wood stove up against a nuclear reactor... ...



Mike.

 

[cerberusiam]

That's the only ECM-based high idle available for the Cummins in the Dodge application for the 98. 5-2002 trucks.

That is for the automatic high idle function not the idle up feature.

Here is the TSB for idle up using the speed control buttons: http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/18-004-04.htm

Here is the revision to load the correct OS into the ECM: http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/18-033-04.htm

 

[cerberusiam]

Yeah buddy, that 50 pin ECM on the 2nd gens compared to the 100 pin ECM on the 3rd gens is like putting a wood stove up against a nuclear reactor

Sure, but, the bulk the extra pins is communications, peripheral controls, trans controls, etc. The basic engine control functions can still be found on the 50 pins.

 

[JR]

I wonder why dodge doesnt enable this when you have a reflash performed. I paid big bucks for a new ecm last year and It sure would be a nice feature to have. Whats the sense in having it if people cant take advantage of it. Thanks for the info Cerb.

 

[cerberusiam]

I wonder why dodge doesnt enable this when you have a reflash performed.

I think the problem is these TSB's and not part of the normal operations. Most tech are not even aware of all the TSB's for specific problems unless you point it out.

Frequnrtly, I have to give them TSB numbers to research. I your lucky you have one that can and will look for stuff otherwise the SM just tells you nothing is available and kills the whole thing.

 

[PC12Driver]

We're talking about 98. 5-02 24v trucks here.

That is for the automatic high idle function not the idle up feature.



Here is the TSB for idle up using the speed control buttons: http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/18-004-04.htm

TSB 18-004-04 is for model year 2004 trucks only. Nothing to do with the trucks we're talking about in this thread or sub-forum.

Here is the revision to load the correct OS into the ECM: http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/18-033-04.htm

TSB 18-033-04 is for "... programming a generic Cummins ECM with software. " Since you can't get pre-programmed Dodge ECMs anymore, this TSB tells a dealer how to put the Dodge software on an off the shelf Cummins ECM. Not an upgraded software, or a factory Cummins software, just whatever the latest Dodge-flavored ECM software is for the applicable truck. No additional features added. No features from later model trucks added to the earlier ones. Basically puts you right up to step 7 on the TSB I posted above, and you get the same high-idle functionality as in the TSB I posted above. At least this one applies to the trucks in this thread and sub-forum, but unfortunately it has nothing to do with any high-idle functions.



You're adding to the confusion. Please stop.

 

[Bob4x4]

I think the problem is these TSB's and not part of the normal operations. Most tech are not even aware of all the TSB's for specific problems unless you point it out.

Frequnrtly, I have to give them TSB numbers to research. I your lucky you have one that can and will look for stuff otherwise the SM just tells you nothing is available and kills the whole thing.

Time is money,when a customer is willing to spend money a tech is willing to spend time!!
It gets old when I hear dealers suck and the aftermarket rocks

Every day I have to clean up or fix what aftermarket shops can not

 

[cerberusiam]

We're talking about 98. 5-02 24v trucks here.

Read the TSB's.



NOTE: This bulletin applies to DR vehicles equipped with a 5. 9L Cummins Turbo Diesel engine (sales code ETC or ETH) and an automatic transmission, with an engine serial number 57130284 or earlier (Figure 1); and the engine date of manufacture on or before December 10, 2003.





2. If the “ECM part number” is 15235113AG, 15235133AG, 15305153AG, or a later revision to these part numbers, proceed to (STEP #3). If not, flash the Cummins ECM in accordance with TSB 18-030-03 Rev. A before proceeding to (STEP #3).



TSB 18-033-04 THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES SERVICE BULLETIN 18-030-03 REV. A DATED OCTOBER 17, 2003



Models: 1998. 5-2005 (BR/BE, DH/DR) Ram Truck



1998 1/2 - 2002 (BE/BR) Ram Truck

2003 - 2005 (DH/DR) Ram Truck



NOTE: This bulletin applies to all ram trucks equipped with the 5. 9L Cummins 24-valve diesel engine (sales codes ETC or ETH).



Overview:

This bulletin involves programming a generic Cummins ECM with software



Discussion:

Mopar is phasing out pre-programmed Cummins Diesel Engine Control Modules (ECM). New modules will no longer be preprogrammed when received from Mopar. Replacement of future ECM's will require programming utilizing the DRBIII and TechCONNECT. 1998 1/2 - 2002 modules will cause the "Wait to Start" light to flash, indicating the module has not been programmed.





Reading and following directions is decidedly a lost art. The TSB's clearly infer once a generic ECM is programmed with the Dodge software the idle up feature is available to be activated. They even give part #'s for replacement of older ECM's that don't meet the needs of the software.



As I said previously, the only question is the interface to activate it. Since we already know the 98. 5-2002 ECU's were capable of the functionality, and, the replacement is loaded with software that has the functionality all that remains is find the interface to activate it. As I pointed out earlier, CC and speed control are 2 different concepts that may give a clue to what is needed to make it work.



Confusion is a permanent state for some.

 

[HBarlow]

We're talking about 98. 5-02 24v trucks here.



TSB 18-004-04 is for model year 2004 trucks only. Nothing to do with the trucks we're talking about in this thread or sub-forum.

TSB 18-033-04 is for "... programming a generic Cummins ECM with software. " Since you can't get pre-programmed Dodge ECMs anymore, this TSB tells a dealer how to put the Dodge software on an off the shelf Cummins ECM. Not an upgraded software, or a factory Cummins software, just whatever the latest Dodge-flavored ECM software is for the applicable truck. No additional features added. No features from later model trucks added to the earlier ones. Basically puts you right up to step 7 on the TSB I posted above, and you get the same high-idle functionality as in the TSB I posted above. At least this one applies to the trucks in this thread and sub-forum, but unfortunately it has nothing to do with any high-idle functions.

You're adding to the confusion. Please stop.

Thanks for clarifying that. I was not losing my mind after all. I vaguely remember knowing of the extreme cold weather conversion to three cylinder idle but as you just explained, that was ECM and temp controlled. The ECM did not offer a feature to permit driver manual adjust of idle speed using the cruise control buttons.

Am I understanding you correctly now?

Cerberusiam has a habit of throwing a bunch of brown stuff up against a wall to see if any of it will stick to confuse anyone who disagrees with him. I didn't pay close attention this morning, just accepted that I had missed something years ago.

 

[AH64ID]

Thanks for clarifying that. I was not losing my mind after all. I vaguely remember knowing of the extreme cold weather conversion to three cylinder idle but as you just explained, that was ECM and temp controlled. The ECM did not offer a feature to permit driver manual adjust of idle speed using the cruise control buttons.

That's exactly why the OP was after, and you told him it was not possible. The same flash for 3cyl fast idle, also enables a 1200 rpm 6 cyl fast idle below 32° as per TSB 18-019-01.

There is some confusion on manual vs automatic fast idle. Manual fast idle is a 3rd gen (04+, rare 03's) feature, and automatic fast idle is a 2nd gen (with TSB 18-019-01 applied) and standard on all 3rd gens.

Smarty will enable TSB 18-019-01 on 2nd Gen 24V motors, which is why the OP wants to flash his truck with a Smarty.

Read the TSB's.

NOTE: This bulletin applies to DR vehicles equipped with a 5. 9L Cummins Turbo Diesel engine (sales code ETC or ETH) and an automatic transmission, with an engine serial number 57130284 or earlier (Figure 1); and the engine date of manufacture on or before December 10, 2003.

You missed this line, right above that note.

Models: 2004 (DR) Ram Truck

 

[cerberusiam]

Cerberusiam has a habit of throwing a bunch of brown stuff up against a wall to see if any of it will stick to confuse anyone who disagrees with him.

There are more things in heaven and earth Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. :-laf:-laf

 

[Moe]

ABennin added a thread for a manual controller to turn the hi idle on at any time either hot or cold. Going to the dealer thursday to get the reflash and have the hi idle turned on. Then the controller is next. Thanks to all. Moe

 

[JR]

Moe, I would recommend shooting prowelder a pm or an email to let him know you are interested in one of his units. He generally doesnt have very many made up if any in advance and sometimes takes him a little time to get one together if hes busy. If you are not a member on Mopar1973Man or would like his email, shoot me a pm and I can get you in touch with him. I will say his units are nice and clean, all plug and play. Makes a nice addition to an already awesome truck

 

[Moe]

diesel4life im a member there also. Gonna contact prowelder as soon as I get my reflash. Thanks to all who responded positively to my post. Merry Christmas to all, Moe

 

[ABennin]

ABennin added a thread for a manual controller to turn the hi idle on at any time either hot or cold. Going to the dealer thursday to get the reflash and have the hi idle turned on. Then the controller is next. Thanks to all. Moe

Moe actually AH64ID posted it and I used a qoute. Just want to give credit where credit is due and not step on any toes. It is gonna be my next purchase too.

 

[Moe]

Got the hi idle tsb done at the dealer and this morning it was 25 deg so I fired it up and after about 2 min of run time it ramped up to 1200rpm and worked perfect. Still not cold enough to test the 3cyl idle yet. Talked to 1973moparman about the idle fooler. Nice guy but he doesnt build them anymore. Tried to find a guy called Prowelder but havent heard from him yet. If I have to I will buy the parts and try to make one myself. Much rather buy the fooler from someone who knows how to make it right. Thanks to diesel4life and cerb for their help. Moe