Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting ultrasonic brass cleaners & Hardness testers

[BIGNASTY]

Two things that Santa Claus had a question on,

Ultrasonic brass cleaners, Pro's and Con's??? im not going to be cleaning my guns just the brass, I have a lyman turbo???? Punkin looking thing that works great and has been around for many years on my reloading bench. Problem is that my rifle brass 338/378 the brass for the Sharps BIG fifty and the 45/70 Marlin rifle take up so much room in the lyman that it becomes a long tedious task to clean brass. Don't know if im going to be shooting enough of these three rounds (because they tend to sting after a bit) to justifie the purchase of such a tool, and what if anything does it do to the brass other than clean. There would have to be some vibration, so would chipping of cracking be a problem.

Going to be casting bullets, for the Sharps and the Marlin, two different uses, have the molds, lyman black powder reloading manual for the Sharps, made my melting pot and just about anything Santa could think of to put in his big red bag to bring to me. The one thing that I want to get right that I don't have yet is the ingot hardness tester. I have been looking around at different types most want to test A single bullet, I see this as a problem I really don't want to mix up a batch of ingots, cast some bullets and then have to remake the ingots and do the entire process all over again. Have found this in a gunsmiths shop that works on my guns, its not his its one of his Smiths that cast's, any ideas other than this would be appreciated. At a $130.00 and I have the dial indicator it don't seem to be out of the question as long as it works. He gave me the website and this is a picture from the site, looks pretty tuff.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=159279&CAT=3903


Thanks BIG

PS Please hurry with any info Mrs. Claus has her checkbook open with pen in hand and a giving heart!!! FOR NOW!! :-laf

 

[GHarman]

Brother BIG!
Ultrasonics have their place!
Lots to read before you buy.
Starting with the second article in this list!
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=Ultrasonic+Cleaning&submit=Search

The tumbler, with HAND Dish washing detergent, no chlorinated detergents, just Dawn or lemon Sunshine, etc and steel BB's. (These have to be dried and oiled between uses, or they will rust.)
Works great! If you use the stainless steel pins, decap the cases first, then tumble. INSPECT EVERY CASE WHEN DRY! Those pins can stick to the inside of a case and ruin a good barrel with one shot! I prefer the BB's. Tried both. I have an ultrasonic, but have not used it as yet. Bought mine from Harbor Freight!

Lead hardness tester is a good thing to have when bullet casting. Knowing the hardness of the ingots at the get-go is a good first step. Start with parameters you know and mix accordingly. However, You will only use it with the ingots. Are you going to make large batches? Remember, lead alloys age harden. Especially those with antimony. So older alloys will not give you a true picture. If you order ingot lead, the supplier should be able to give you the hardness. A bullet hardness tool could be a better purchase? You could still measure the hardness of your ingot material. Just cut off a chunk and mould a bullet. "Saves" yer money and buy more powder, primers and brass.

I'm saying this in a joking manner. But the purchase depends on your needs and wants. This requires some study.
Brother Greg

 

[BIGNASTY]

Brother BIG!
Ultrasonics have their place!
Lots to read before you buy.
Starting with the second article in this list!
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=Ultrasonic+Cleaning&submit=Search

The tumbler, with HAND Dish washing detergent, no chlorinated detergents, just Dawn or lemon Sunshine, etc and steel BB's. (These have to be dried and oiled between uses, or they will rust.)
Works great! If you use the stainless steel pins, decap the cases first, then tumble. INSPECT EVERY CASE WHEN DRY! Those pins can stick to the inside of a case and ruin a good barrel with one shot! I prefer the BB's. Tried both. I have an ultrasonic, but have not used it as yet. Bought mine from Harbor Freight!

Lead hardness tester is a good thing to have when bullet casting. Knowing the hardness of the ingots at the get-go is a good first step. Start with parameters you know and mix accordingly. However, You will only use it with the ingots. Are you going to make large batches? Remember, lead alloys age harden. Especially those with antimony. So older alloys will not give you a true picture. If you order ingot lead, the supplier should be able to give you the hardness. A bullet hardness tool could be a better purchase? You could still measure the hardness of your ingot material. Just cut off a chunk and mould a bullet. "Saves" yer money and buy more powder, primers and brass.

I'm saying this in a joking manner. But the purchase depends on your needs and wants. This requires some study.
Brother Greg

*G*man
I have found a man that is also my Dentist, that belongs to a group of like minded Sharps People. He and the Smith that owns that Hardness tester are going to help me out with the reloading of the Sharps when I join their group, with it I would like to go with the traditional PPB and use Black Powder to make it as authentic as I can, I have never messed with any sort of PPB so it would be a new experience for me. I try to get as many thoughts from as many different sources to formulate my answer.

I like the Garrett Loads for both the Marlin and the 44 mag they have a Brinnell hardness of 25, that's what I want for the use of those two rounds. But as we talked about the other day briefly the Sharps will be a different animal with the need for some expansion on game, I would also like to cast some 45 ACP and 9mm for both of our carry, Para Ordnance weapons. To cut down on my practice cost and get the wife to practice more than she does, I as a genral rule put a couple of hundred rounds thru my Para 45 every other day sometimes everyday, the wife if I can get her to squeeze off a hundred a week I would be happy.

I have obtained an almost never ending supply of PURE LEAD, there was an old telephone line that was above ground on poles at one time and then was taken down a buried and eventually abandoned. Last spring the state was digging a drainage ditch and hit the line, I got with them and got the entire length of all 3 of our property's in the family, close to a mile of lead with copper wire in it. The pure lead is no good for anything except my Round baller that throws a 54cal punkin. I also have a few 5 gal buckets of Linotype and as many wheel weights so I have the basics of the casting material, Just need to get some tin and read some more in Lyman's 4th edition casting book to figure out what mix I need to get what hardness desired.

Good thought on the bullet tester to save money, Saco makes one that is about the same price as the ingot tester so it would be a toss up in that case. I will more than likely make a batch of the several different types of hardness to save time, My question is how much harder will they get in say a few years of storage?

I have always used either walnut or corncob media in my Turbo tumbler and have gotten excellent results (I thought until I read some of the Lyman's book) I will still use the turbo with all but the largest cases or the lager amounts, it can hold quite a few 45's, 9's and 223 rounds.

Thanks for your thoughts Gman

BIG

 

[GHarman]

BIG,

My question is how much harder will they get in say a few years of storage?

I don't know how hard they will get, but you cannot run them through a sizer die (if they are oversized) after a couple of years.
If you use an alloy for your .45 and 9mm's? Size and lube they right away! Then they are done. Box 'em up for when ya need them.

Glad you have mentors on the BP cartridge rifle! When I started out in the game, there were no organizations, nor knowledgeable people handy.
I used old Lyman/Ideal books, moulds and experimented with the .45/70 1874 Sharps that I rebuilt back in 1970-'71. (old receiver with a new barrel)
With some tweaking it was able to shoot one MOA, consistently! It was a dinger! The bullet was the 535 Gr. Postell.

The 4 cavity H&G bullet mould I have for the .45 ACP puts out some really nice round nosed slugs!
Loading them, one-at-a-time is really time consuming. Maybe someday, I'll get a progressive press.

Heres some more on bullet casting alloys! Good read!
Hope this is helpful? Brother!
GregH

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCommentsCBAlloys.htm


PS, I use a Thumblers Tumbler to wet clean my brass. It has worked reliably for several decades!
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/42...del-b-high-speed-rotary-case-tumbler-110-volt

Also use a RCBS Sidewinder tumbler to molycoat bullets. Lots of room in there, also. I bought this set-up 15 years ago!
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/102969/rcbs-sidewinder-rotary-case-tumbler-110-volt

 

[Sticks]

BIG,

Nothing at all wrong with the vibratory tumblers. I use walnut reptile bedding, a couple tablespoons of Maguiers car polish (non ammonia) with a dryer sheet cut into 2" squares to keep down the dust & static. More often than not, I'll let them run for at least 8 hours or overnight. Ultrasonic is for jewelery and intricate parts IMO.

You thought the EPA was coming after your living room fireplace? Now you're smelting lead for casting? Better have darn good ventilation in your work area. Nasty stuff.

I just wish swaging bullets was not such a PITA, especially for the need for oddball cases to make the jackets that I need or I'd be making my own as well.

 

[GHarman]

Sticks!
I've been melting lead and making cast bullets since I was 15 years old.
Course, not now as much as I used to. This is not, "Just getting started".
I still have two of my first bullet moulds. A .395" round ball mould for a long rifle and an Ideal mould for the .52 caliber Sharps percussion rifle, Civil War era.
Probably have around 30 bullet moulds in my tool box. I also do my casting outside, or right inside the shop door, with it rolled up, for fresh air! Yes, lead fumes are nasty!
Swaging bullets is a science, but is something that has been around since the Civil War! Did you know that some bullet designs for precision muzzleloaders were two pieced projectiles? They were cast individually, Swaged to precise dimensions and then assembled with a swage. Usually, a soft base and hard nose.
Then loaded with a strip patch, lubricated with whale oil or equivalent.

Walnut hulls are oily. Natural oils in the walnut. Corn media has no natural oils. I often use corn media in a tumbler to second step, clean bullets before molycoating.
I have a vibratory tumbler set up, but found that the capacity was inadequate.

GregH

 

[BIGNASTY]

BIG,

Nothing at all wrong with the vibratory tumblers. I use walnut reptile bedding, a couple tablespoons of Maguiers car polish (non ammonia) with a dryer sheet cut into 2" squares to keep down the dust & static. More often than not, I'll let them run for at least 8 hours or overnight. Ultrasonic is for jewelery and intricate parts IMO.

You thought the EPA was coming after your living room fireplace? Now you're smelting lead for casting? Better have darn good ventilation in your work area. Nasty stuff.

I just wish swaging bullets was not such a PITA, especially for the need for oddball cases to make the jackets that I need or I'd be making my own as well.

When the time comes the EPA can Kiss my Grits on the stove for heat and cooking, I will pull out the propane heater that we have never used and be fine with the ONLY HEAT SOURCE loophole.




Progressive reloading machines are fine for MASS PRODUCTION and mostly for straight wall case's IMO. I wont use them for anything that is going to need to be shot for accuracy. Then I use the RCBS O Press, The Dillion 1050 (I think that's the number) that I have is for mostly 45ACP and 9mm, 223 the conversions are kind of costly if you should want to reload other rounds. The Dillion is good enough for those rounds that I mass produce, the 223 rounds are for AR's only. My varmint special in 223 and my Contender in 223 I load in the O press.

I use Frankford arsenal walnut tumbler media and have never had any problems with it, its mixed with Frankford arsenal corncob media 50/50 Both say * Treated * with what??? I don't know, but have used them for some time with no problems, the Walnut alone REALLY makes the brass shine but the corn is cheap and with the mix of the two it seems to come out of the cases better.

 

[GHarman]

Yep, a mix would make the best of both media types. Walnut is not good for every application, nor is corncob media. If you want dry, oil free applications, corn cob is the stuff. If you it makes no difference? Walnut works. Just remember the red coloring in various media is like jewelers rouge (super fine abrasive polish). If it is not removed from the cases, it will be inside your loading dies and chambers.
Personally, I don't like that idea. However, what ever works!
GregH

 

[Sticks]

I'll have to double check, but I am pretty sure the last 25# bag I bought was "All Natural" - I would presume to be additive free.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Let me throw a cog among the gears....

Concrete mixer. http://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-4-quarter-cubic-ft-compact-cement-mixer-91907.html

A little media of your choice, and you're set for several hundred rounds at a time...... Also, it works good for LARGE brass.....

 

[Sticks]

Several hundred!?! Try a couple thousand.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Let me throw a cog among the gears....

Concrete mixer. http://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-4-quarter-cubic-ft-compact-cement-mixer-91907.html

A little media of your choice, and you're set for several hundred rounds at a time...... Also, it works good for LARGE brass.....

View attachment 87293

Genius!!!!!!! I that never even crossed my mind! I seen one the other day at the Hardware store and was thinking about it FOR AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PURPOSE FOR THE WIFE.

THE CAT CRAP REMOVER IS A NICE TOUCH!!

Several hundred!?! Try a couple thousand.

Obviously you haven't seen BIG BRASS before!!! :-laf

 

[HHhuntitall]

It's good for about 100 rnds of 50BMG with about 5 pounds of media, depending on type.... I have dumped 1,000 rnds of 9mm in it, and it worked great. It only holds about 35-50 of 20mm, though.... And you can also throw in brass door hinges, SS receiver parts, small children, and the occasional brass ball set.... real handy when your wife give them back to you for the weekend and she's let them tarnish in her kitchen drawer!! :-laf

One down side is how loud it is.... there may be other ones that are quieter, but the electric drive on this thing is insanely loud!! And the large cartridges will ding a little when the heads come down on the sides.... Good news is it drowns out the sounds of my children trying to kill each other....

Cat scraper? Ohhh, so that's what that was... I found it in an old bucket of random stuff my wife left in the attic..... and since I don't throw away much of anything, I thought it looked handy... It keeps most of the media in the tub, and holds it while you drain the remaining media and sort your brass.....

 

[BIGNASTY]

the occasional brass ball set.... real handy when your wife give them back to you for the weekend and she's let them tarnish in her kitchen drawer!! :-laf

When Holiday Shopping it seems that my wife deems it necessary to keep a tight GRIP on our Brass Ball set, but she would NEVER think of tossing them in a KITCHEN DRAWER!!! that would be SO IMPERSONAL!!! ours are kept in a place of honor ONE PER and IN HER PURSE, where she can give them a quick kick when one of the Female Santa's helpers come by wearing SKIN TIGHT SKI PANTS

 

[BIGNASTY]

HH found this poly drum mixer, would be less noise of case's against the metal drum. Did you remove the in-drum mixer paddles? or leave them. Thanks for the Great Idea!! Pard.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200356931_200356931#

 

[HHhuntitall]

HH found this poly drum mixer, would be less noise of case's against the metal drum. Did you remove the in-drum mixer paddles? or leave them. Thanks for the Great Idea!! Pard.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200356931_200356931#

Gee, that's a big one, BIG!! Mine's a 1.5 cu/ft, and takes up a little less room.... Poly might be quite a bit quieter, but then again, most of the noise of mine comes from the drive system... But I got it on sale for $75, IIRC.

The paddles have to be in there, or the brass in the middle won't move much.... Initially, I left them out of mine to try it, but it wouldn't work properly.... The original paddles seemed too big to me, so I made smaller ones out of 1/2" angle iron, and that's worked pretty good..... The larger paddles wouldn't work very well with the .50BMG brass, as they fall too hard from the top when it rolls over. It works okay with the smaller brass, though. The smaller mixer blade looking things I made work much better, and don 't let the brass fall so far. The poly tub might make for less fall damage on the case mouths when they fall off the paddles and hit the tub. Also, the two small mixer blades allow you to stick the cat scraper in the middle and collect a load of brass to sort while it's running.....

 

[HHhuntitall]

Northern tool has a smaller poly unit, a bit cheaper, too..... http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200356929_200356929

I can't find anything better than that.... the poly tub is giving me ideas.... I think I may try to rhino line mine....

 

[BIGNASTY]

Gee, that's a big one, BIG!! Mine's a 1.5 cu/ft, and takes up a little less room.... Poly might be quite a bit quieter, but then again, most of the noise of mine comes from the drive system... But I got it on sale for $75, IIRC.

The paddles have to be in there, or the brass in the middle won't move much.... Initially, I left them out of mine to try it, but it wouldn't work properly.... The original paddles seemed too big to me, so I made smaller ones out of 1/2" angle iron, and that's worked pretty good..... The larger paddles wouldn't work very well with the .50BMG brass, as they fall too hard from the top when it rolls over. It works okay with the smaller brass, though. The smaller mixer blade looking things I made work much better, and don 't let the brass fall so far. The poly tub might make for less fall damage on the case mouths when they fall off the paddles and hit the tub. Also, the two small mixer blades allow you to stick the cat scraper in the middle and collect a load of brass to sort while it's running.....

I always say GO BIG or GO HOME :-laf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQG1xMaK6VQ

Be damned if im throwing my 29 on the ground!!!

 

[HHhuntitall]

I always say GO BIG or GO HOME :-laf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQG1xMaK6VQ

Be damned if im throwing my 29 on the ground!!!

Only if it's empty and that hand just got cut off!! :-laf