Oil Sample Results and Dealer questions.

[Freidhof]

Recently got an oil test back on my 15 3500 Mega Cab. This will be the 3rd oil change, each done as close to 7500 miles as possible, running Shell Rotella 5W-40 Synthetic, with approx. 22500 miles on the truck total. The tests are trending down in all of the important areas, (iron, copper, silicon, etc) as to be expected from a new engine at break in. ( yes, the first sample will scare the crap out of at guy). The only concern is that Potassium is raising slightly, usually an indicator of coolant seepage into the crankcase some how. It is not at real concerning levels yet, but wanted to ask the dealer their opinion on it and get it documented if it becomes a problem in the future.

I will start off by saying, that I probably just handed my Dealer service manager more in depth information on a vehicle than he has ever gotten from any of his other customers. It is a small local single location, very good people, always answer the phone, know you by name type place. However, probably do more business with 80 year old widows and buick le sabres than they do on diesel pickups. Told my service manager my concerns, and that I had been running 5w-40 synthetic since new. He calls back and states that according to his book that I am running the wrong oil and should be using a 15w-40 for these ambient temperatures. After a friendly discussion about 5w-40 synthetic compared to 15w-40, and that the truck came new with 5w-40, he really didn't believe me and seemed to not want to pursue my concern any further stating that I was running the wrong oil for the truck. I asked him if he new what oil came in the truck new, and he couldn't answer it. We agreed to disagree a little bit, and he was going to see what his tech guys would say and get back to me.

My question, does anybody have a sheet from Ram that states the trucks came new with 5w-40 from Factory so I could forward it on to him? I know its probably in the TDR magazine some where, but I am in my truck and odnt have the copies with me and don't know where to search.

Thanks,

 

[Kirwin]

I don't have the documentation to prove it from the factory, but I also believe that the engine comes from the factory with 5W-40 as was stated on the factory tour from the CMEP. I'm not sure that it always has though. I've been running 5W-40 Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme in both my 2003 and my 2013 with no issues. It's good oil and I'm sure the Shell is too.

 

[kthaxton]

It sounds like he's just misunderstanding the oil recommendations from the manual.....it's more of a "you can run 15w-40 in the summer months" recommendation.

 

[SMcGrady]

http://articles.sae.org/11410/

This was true starting in 2013. I don't think anything has changed...

"...The diesel oil change interval was doubled to 15,000 mi (24,000 km). A new fuel filter, the high pressure common rail, and SCR-permitted calibration changes reduce fuel dilution and soot formation. The 2013 OE oil fill is a 5W-40 synthetic for the diesel in the HD trucks and a carryover 15W-40 oil in the HD chassis cabs. At the first oil change interval, the customer is free to choose either one...."

 

[Freidhof]

It sounds like he's just misunderstanding the oil recommendations from the manual.....it's more of a "you can run 15w-40 in the summer months" recommendation.

That is basically the point I was trying to make with him, but I am not sure it got across. It was also over the phone, so something may have gotten lost in translation so to speak.

 

[Cummins12V98]

You should be running 15-40 in temps over freezing.

 

[kthaxton]

No, he doesn't need to....but he can if he wants. 15w-40 and 5w-40 are both still a "40" weight at engine temperature. There is no requirement for running 15w-40.

If it was a requirement, they wouldn't come from the factory with 5w-40.

I would add the caveat that if you do choose 5w-40, it better be synthetic (do they even make a 5w-40 conventional?).

 

[Eagle6.7L]

When these trucks are built they will be going to states were the day time temp is around -10 degree's so I would think that the truck comes ready to start and test driven with oil in the range of the current temp in a given month.

 

[Bob4x4]

A 5w40 does not have the same viscosity as a 15w40......

 

[LandShark]

I agree that the operator's manual for our trucks is not very clear about using 5w40 in warmer months.

I just had my first oil change (complimentary) done by my dealer. They gave me the choice of paying an extra $40 (which I paid) for 5w40 Rotella, so I guess they are OK with it.

 

[gsbrockman]

No, he doesn't need to....but he can if he wants. 15w-40 and 5w-40 are both still a "40" weight at engine temperature. There is no requirement for running 15w-40.

If it was a requirement, they wouldn't come from the factory with 5w-40.

I would add the caveat that if you do choose 5w-40, it better be synthetic (do they even make a 5w-40 conventional?).

You are correct.....

 

[Cummins12V98]

I agree he can but if having the choice should he?

 

[kthaxton]

A 5w40 does not have the same viscosity as a 15w40......

The starting (cold) viscosity is not the same, but the at-temperature viscosity is.

A 15w-40 oil is a 15 weight oil with polymers added that will not thin more than a 40 weight would at operating temperatures.

A 5w-40 is a 5 weight that has polymers added that will not thin more than a 40 weight would at operating temperatures.

Polymers are tiny coils at cold temps that unwind and straighten out into strands in warmer temperatures. These strands hold (so to speak) the oil molecules together to keep the oil from thinning.

Obviously, a 5w-40 requires more polymers. Since polymers do not lubricate, the more you have, the less lubricity it has. Fortunately, with synthetics, they can formulate it with far less polymers than a conventional oil, hence my suggestion for not using a conventional 5w-40 (if it exists). This is exactly why you never see 10w-40 recommended anymore......it requires too many polymers.

 

[kthaxton]

I agree he can but if having the choice should he?

No harm either way.

If I could go to my local Walmart, and choose between a 5w-40 synthetic Rotella (or any quality brand) T6 for $20-something a gallon, or a 15w-40 Rotella T6 for $20-something, I'd choose the 15w-40 for summer use. Since the only synthetic the local Walmart has is the 5w-40, that's what I buy.....and lose no sleep over it as I am not terribly concerned with the viscosity when the engine is cold, in warm weather.

If they carried an approved Mobil 1, I would buy it instead.

 

[gsbrockman]

I agree he can but if having the choice should he?

If one has two options, and neither one is wrong in this scenario, the right answer is simply every owner "should" make that decision based on their own needs / use, finances, and philosophy.

 

[Freidhof]

If one has two options, and neither one is wrong in this scenario, the right answer is simply every owner "should" make that decision based on their own needs / use, finances, and philosophy.

Well Said. I appreciate all of the replies and discussion on this topic, and oil use is one of those that if you ask 100 people, you'll get a 100 different answers, and most of them won't be wrong.

I will state that I have no doubts in my choice of oil. Working in the Ag and Heavy equipment business, it is and has been, with very few exceptions, accepted that a 5w-40 synthetic can and is used as a direct replacement for standard 15w-40, for all temperature ranges. ( at least for the manufacturer I mainly deal with) As said, the at operating temps benefits will be the same or extremely similar, but the added benefit is in favor of the synthetic on cold temps. The debate comes in regards to the cost/benefit ratio of running a usually more expensive synthetic on longer service schedule v s. cheaper standard oils and changing more often. We have our own oil lab at work, and even here the debate can still be made on whether synthetics decrease wear and improve performance enough to over come the cost in some or all applications. So......you be the judge.

My opinion, with the cost of synthetics becoming cheaper, the price of equipment becoming higher, engines becoming more complicated....I am going to run what was in the truck when they handed me the keys at 17 miles. Now, on my 99, it gets 15w-40 of usually whatever is cheaper, generally limited to Rotella or Mobile Delvac. 8 years of oil samples and 250000+ miles on that truck have proved one thing...change the oil regularly and forget about it.

Back to the original situation, I haven't heard anything back from the dealer beyond our conversation yesterday. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Honest question, above freezing towing heavy what one will protect my engine the best?

 

[kthaxton]

The one that is equivalent to a 40 weight at operating temperatures.

 

[Freidhof]

The one that is equivalent to a 40 weight at operating temperatures.

I just lost a little coffee over that One :-laf

I just got an email from Service Manager, saying he had sent my oil sample to TC and was awaiting an answer. I am curious what he comes back with.

 

[Freidhof]

Got a response from Serv. Manager. Tried to get it to copy and paste or attach, but I can't figure it out. Looks like they scanned a page or picture or.... anyway...

To answer the main question, Cummins, by way of the Ram tech dept, says more than likely not a coolant leak, because sodium is normal. More than likely just normal leaching from the Potassium Aluminum Flux from the Charge Air cooler. So...good new there. Aluminum was also way under spec for cummins, 10 ppm vs. cummins allowable 30ppm.

Now, the opinion of whom I believe is the Ram Tech dept and not from cummins, if I read the letter right, is that he would recommend using 15w-40 during the summer also (agreeing with the service manager here), but goes on to say that "Not exactly sure what the Shell Rotella T 5w-40 is or what the exact rating is. I found a Shell Rotella T6 5w-30? Is that what he is using?" In my experience in dealing with TC's, I would call that a " sure whatever, just go away cuz its Friday and I don't want to work to hard" answer.

I guess... the oil sample is good.... and the oil choice is....its Friday and have a good weekend.