Alcan Springs & Bilstein Shocks?

[Wallybanger]

Hey Guys,

I've got the standard issue of bagged out springs and cement truck ride on my '93 W250. I'm ready to pull the trigger on some Alcan Springs and Bilstein shocks. I've been doing lots of reading and I'm exasperated by the conflicting information or lack there of. I'm thinking new springs/bushings/shocks will improve the ride enough that I'll be satisfied and it sounds like the skyjacker products are junk.

I'm going to be keeping the truck at around the stock height, maybe an inch or 2 higher and hopefully level. I do a little off roading and quite a bit of banging down the logging roads. I also have a 6000lb sailboat and a 10,000lb cargo trailer so I will be towing from time to time.

Anyone have any thoughts or advise before I go ahead and order the Alcan/Bilstein stuff?

 

[Wallybanger]

I spoke to Bill at Alcan. He suggested 4" lift front and 2" lift rear for a level truck that's overall about 2" higher than stock.

 

[GrantP]

Custom springs are definitely the way to go, not off the shelf "lift kits". Alcan has a good reputation, you might also call Deaver too.

Can't go wrong with the Bilstein shocks either.

 

[Wallybanger]

I'm thinking about ordering from Custom Suspension. They are up here in Kanada and it looks like it would save me a lot of money. The Alcan springs would be $2000 CAD before taxes and it looks like I can get the Custom Suspension ones for $1500.... but I haven't got a quote yet. Their prices are all over the map.

 

[EDankievitch]

Ok call me crazy but I miss the ride of my 89. My 2013 is ok but it's just not the same "1 ton" feel of a truck. Each time I see an old school truck come up on Ebay I have to lock up my paypal acct as I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Last thing I need is more toys... lol

 

[Wallybanger]

OK, so I've decided to go with Custom/Carrier Suspension springs (https://customsuspension.com/). They are local-ish for me in British Columbia and they beat the crap out of Alcan for prices. Looks like it's going to cost me $1575 Kanucki Kopecs vs. $2k from Alcan. I'm going with 2" lift springs front and rear. Apparently they rebuild the stock springs, add Teflon pads and extra leafs. For reference, I got a quote from Canada Spring and they wanted $2328 for stock springs manufactured by some company in Onterrible.

I was thrown off by the shocks since I was having problems finding information from Bilstein. I finally got a hold of them and this is what I found.

Stock application B6 4600 shocks
------------------------------------------
Front
P/N: 33-248097
Extended Length: 21.37"
Collapsed Length: 13.78"
Travel: 7.59"
Valving: Medium 255/70

Rear
P/N: 24-248105
Extended Length: 28.7"
Collapsed Length: 17.48"
Travel: 11.22"
Valving: Medium 255/70

Shocks recommended by Gino's Garage for 0-2" lift
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Front
P/N: 33-185590
Extended Length: 21.54"
Collapsed Length: 13.58"
Travel: 7.96"
Valving: Medium 255/70

Rear
P/N: 33-185569
Extended Length: 29.7"
Collapsed Length: 17.91
Travel: 11.79"
Valving: Medium 255/70

What I found
-----------------
My bagged out front shocks and garbage front springs are currently sitting with a shock length at 17.69". That leaves the axle about 1" off the bump stop and 3.5" from an absolute, metal on metal bottom out of 3.5". Based on the Metal on Metal condition, the absolute minimum shock length is 17.69"-3.5" = 14.19". The only way this will change is if the spring pack gets thinner or thicker as the shock mount is on the axle and the bump stop hits the top of the spring. I don't know what my full droop length condition will be but I can make some assumptions. The first being that my new shocks should have 2" of travel over the stock shocks. The shocks recommended by Gino's garage are almost the same as the stock shocks so I went to the catalog (which I was only able to find by talking to someone at Bilstein): https://cart.bilsteinus.com/Portals/0/BILSTEINOff-RoadCatalog-2018-WEB.pdf

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a shock that has the extra 2" of travel but, since the other shocks SEEM to be working for people I tried to find something based off those measurements that gives me a little more breathing room.

So I ordered these instead of the 33-185590 shocks recommended by Gino's Garage
--------------------
Front
P/N: 33-185606
Extended Length: 22.50"
Collapsed Length: 14.06"
Travel: 8.44" (for some reason the catalog says 8.6"? Dunno who was running the numbers for them....)
Valving: Medium 255/70

So the collapsed length is less than the metal-on-metal bottom out by 1/8" (and that's assuming the bump stop completely disappears which probably won't ever happen). The shocks are straight up and down so there shouldn't be any strange geometry to account for. The truck would have to bottom out, metal to metal, While also having the axle HIGHLY articulated in order to damage the shock in a bottom out situation. As for length, it's about an inch longer than both the stock shocks and the ones recommended by Gino's.

Rear
Now, as for the rears, I was not able to find a better option than the one offered by Gino's and we only get an extra inch of travel. The interesting thing is that we're not even coming close to using the full shock travel! If you were to move the top mounting point of your shocks outboard by 4 inches (which should be as simple drilling a new hole in the crosmember) you easily gain an extra 2 inches of travel! The only problem is that the exhaust pipe usually runs between the shock and the frame (mine does). The alternative would be making some little drop plates and bolting them onto the crossmember which should also be pretty easy. I made a little drawing showing the differences in travel.

The only thing that could throw off my assumptions is the difference in thickness in the spring packs. We'll find out how that goes soon enough!

Hope you guys find this useful.

 

[RSchwarzli]

Damn. I am late to the party again. I run Alcan springs, and bilstein 5100 shocks. The truck sits at a 1-2" lift over the stock height. I found the PNs for those bilsteins.

But, i guess this info isnt needed anymore is it?

Robert

 

[Wallybanger]

Damn. I am late to the party again. I run Alcan springs, and bilstein 5100 shocks. The truck sits at a 1-2" lift over the stock height. I found the PNs for those bilsteins.

But, i guess this info isnt needed anymore is it?

Robert

Ha, well I guess we'll see! If the P/N's I ordered don't fit I'll have to sort something out. Wouldn't hurt to post your numbers here as a reference for other people but I'm pretty sure the shocks I ordered will fit.

 

[pwerwagn]

Did you end up getting your springs from custom suspension/carrier? I talked to them earlier this year about building some front springs for my CTD/RC conversion, they were cool to talk to. I would be interested in your thoughts on them.

I am running 64" long leafs in the rear with 2.5" sway a way shocks, and the rear rides awesome.

 

[Wallybanger]

Did you end up getting your springs from custom suspension/carrier? I talked to them earlier this year about building some front springs for my CTD/RC conversion, they were cool to talk to. I would be interested in your thoughts on them.

I am running 64" long leafs in the rear with 2.5" sway a way shocks, and the rear rides awesome.

Yeah, I did. Finally got everything installed and working correctly just before thanksgiving weekend (canadian). The short version of the story is that they are awesome, their customer service is top notch and I'm very happy with the springs. Long version of the story is that there were some problems with the rear springs from the manufacturer as they changed the design without testing them. Carrier reworked the whole rear end of the truck to correct the issue at no cost to me which is, in my opinion, over the top customer service. I was super impressed. I'm going to start a thread on the cummins forum with the whole story and all of the info some time in the near future.

 

[pwerwagn]

Yeah, I did. Finally got everything installed and working correctly just before thanksgiving weekend (canadian). The short version of the story is that they are awesome, their customer service is top notch and I'm very happy with the springs. Long version of the story is that there were some problems with the rear springs from the manufacturer as they changed the design without testing them. Carrier reworked the whole rear end of the truck to correct the issue at no cost to me which is, in my opinion, over the top customer service. I was super impressed. I'm going to start a thread on the cummins forum with the whole story and all of the info some time in the near future.

Awesome! Is the ride that much better? How many leaves are in the pack they sent you?

 

[Wallybanger]

Awesome! Is the ride that much better? How many leaves are in the pack they sent you?

The ride is definitely better. It's pretty much exactly like people say but it's hard to describe. People say "it still rides like a truck". This is exactly accurate. The big thing I noticed is that I can feel the axles moving under the truck. It isn't that much smoother but it is definitely WAY softer. What I mean by that is that the truck still bounces down the road but when I hit a bump I don't feel like I have solid steel locomotive wheels with no suspension under the truck. I no longer feel like my teeth are going to shatter. The shortest way to describe it is that I don't regret spending $2500 on springs and shocks and that I would recommend it for anyone else with absolutely thundered springs and factory shocks. Honestly, I wish I had done it when I bought the truck 6-7 years ago.

Going off memory because it's late and I don't feel like going outside to count. Back springs are same a stock, 6 leaves and front is 3 plus an ad-a-leaf IIRC.

 

[pwerwagn]

How are the alcans and bilstein's still treatin ya?

 

[RSchwarzli]

How are the alcans and bilstein's still treatin ya?

Love them still. After 9 years, they havent sagged and still havent even rusted! Shocks still stiff too. Would go with both again.