Factory brake controller

[Wiredawg]

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OH NO! When I drove our 7K+ 2001.5 Std Cab 4x4 RAM/Cummins down Lombard Street I did not see the 3 ton sign. Maybe it went up when I displaced bricks? Yeap, compare the sign in this picture from 2006. SnoKing

View attachment 113170

And the reason I knew about the signs is our son flew to San Francisco Dodge 6.7L Cummins Intercooler Kit, 2007.5-2009meet us while we were visiting and he rented a car to take us to all the sights. My truck is 12.2Klbs and oversize parking is sometimes hard to find.

Cheers, Ron

 

[kthaxton]

I pity the person driving a truck through San Francisco!

 

[Wiredawg]

It's a little off script here, but I'm trying to talk my wife into selling our Mobile Suites and purchasing a Host Mammoth cab over camper so we can tow our Jeep Wrangler. It would be sweet to not have to deal with oversize parking and since we go to National Parks, we would be under RV length limits. And it would be sweet to check out destinations in the Jeep.

Cheers. Ron

 

[Wiredawg]

I pity the person driving a truck through San Francisco!

Towing in California is tough, bad roads, bad traffic, and 55MPH speed limit. I never tow over 65MPH, but 55MPH is excruciatingly slow. Nothing wrong with taking a dog leg off topic on a thread to mellow it out a bit.

Cheers, Ron

 

[jhenderson]

You are correct, I mis interpreted your chart. The reference to S.F. Hills was an example of what some of us experience on a daily basis. 4-5 % grade with a stop at the foot of a hill. Not exactly confidence inspiring to have the truck pull trailer braking effect just when you need it most.
This discussion along with more traffic than ever has pushed me to realize it’s time to bypass the factory controller and install one from the aftermarket. Probably a Prodigy or DirecLink. Either way I’m not going to chance it much longer. Not right for me or fair to the other folks on the road.

 

[Wiredawg]

You are correct, I mis interpreted your chart. The reference to S.F. Hills was an example of what some of us experience on a daily basis. 4-5 % grade with a stop at the foot of a hill. Not exactly confidence inspiring to have the truck pull trailer braking effect just when you need it most.
This discussion along with more traffic than ever has pushed me to realize it’s time to bypass the factory controller and install one from the aftermarket. Probably a Prodigy or DirecLink. Either way I’m not going to chance it much longer. Not right for me or fair to the other folks on the road.

I believe your choice is the correct one. I think you may be able to unplug the output of the ITBM from the standard trailer wiring plug and keep the rest factor ITBM connected. I bought AlphaOBD software and might be able to turn it off. I got to run, but would be happy to feed you info on that and we could use your conversion to document steps.

Cheers, Ron

 

[kthaxton]

Towing in California is tough, bad roads, bad traffic, and 55MPH speed limit. I never tow over 65MPH, but 55MPH is excruciatingly slow. Nothing wrong with taking a dog leg off topic on a thread to mellow it out a bit.

Cheers, Ron

Yes, the 55 mph limit is brutal.
We lucked out last time I went....we camped at a KOA near the bay area and was planning on going into SF in our truck. Then, we found that one of my wife's relatives runs a tour guiding business and she hooked us up with a guide for nothing other than a tip. Turns out, the guide was also staying at the KOA. We just met him in the morning and he drove us around giving us our own personal tour. Had I been driving, I would have likely been a very unpleasant person that day.

 

[jhenderson]

Thanks Ron. I may take you up on that. I know aftermarket controllers use an adapter but I’m not sure if they pull info from from the factory input or just power. I share a SnapOn Solus Edge with a close friend. I’m going to scroll through it’s menu when I have some free time and see if anything shows up.

 

[Wiredawg]

Reminded me of the 80s driving across the US. Once a Louisiana Trooper stopped me for going 57 in a 55. He saw I was in the military so he gave me a verbal warning.

Now, I just don't speed... we're retired, drive around 6 hrs day with 15 min rest stops every two hours and 30 minutes for lunch. Dogs and us need to stretch.

Cheers Ron

Cheers, Ron

 

[EZeis]

To use an aftermarket brake controller.
1. Disconnect the OE controller module.
2. Connect aftermarket controller with the correct pigtail adapter to the aftermarket connector.
3. If you don't want the dash warning, have the dealer remove the sales code option for the OE controller. If you cause a fuss, they may cover the change under warranty.

Earl

 

[gsbrockman]

My wife's 2019 ITBM performed better than my 2017 5500, so don't know if Ram refined it more or if this is a performance deviation of the same system.
Cheers, Ron

I’m not sure if I’m overthinking it or under thinking it—-but I actually would not expect the ITBM numbers of a 2019 1500 pickup to be comparable with a 2017 5500.....
Look at....

• FAWR and size of brake components
• RAWR and size of brake components
• GVWR
• GCWR

 

[EZeis]

I’m not sure if I’m overthinking it or under thinking it—-but I actually would not expect the ITBM numbers of a 2019 1500 pickup to be comparable with a 2017 5500.....
Look at....

• FAWR and size of brake components
• RAWR and size of brake components
• GVWR
• GCWR

Modules may or may not be the same but the logic programming could be different. Also trailer brake voltage/amperage needed wouldn't matter what size the truck is. Just like an aftermarket controller. It doesn't care if it's install in a caravan or 5500.


Earl

 

[Wiredawg]

I’m not sure if I’m overthinking it or under thinking it—-but I actually would not expect the ITBM numbers of a 2019 1500 pickup to be comparable with a 2017 5500.....
Look at....

• FAWR and size of brake components
• RAWR and size of brake components
• GVWR
• GCWR

I was a little surprised as well. Could it be there is one ITBM program and the same hardware for all 1500s through 5500s? We bought my wifes truck to use more like a car and max trailer rating for it is 8240 lbs which is well under the 10KLB min for EH. Not sure it's a bad thing, I could have installed a P2 and its would be my responsibility to configure it appropriately.

So it's possible, I would never actually use EH on the 1500. I towed my 20ft enclosed car hauler with it light electric level 4.

I guess the ITBM may be like an after market controller, there maybe settings you dont use.

I actually thought we were close to wrapping this thread up, but now we have to look at the possibility that you can over power your trailer brakes. When I get recovered, I need to hook up the 1500 and the 5500 and run them through all the modes and report the results.

Good catch.

Cheers, Ron

 

[gsbrockman]

Modules may or may not be the same but the logic programming could be different. Also trailer brake voltage/amperage needed wouldn't matter what size the truck is. Just like an aftermarket controller. It doesn't care if it's install in a caravan or 5500.


Earl

But we’re discussing the ITBM.....with much different input technology.

 

[EZeis]

But we’re discussing the ITBM.....with much different input technology.

Yes but trailer brakes voltage and amperage doesn't care what size the truck is. What size brakes the truck has or axle ratings and such. Full voltage is full brakes and less voltage is less brakes. But yes, I'm sure the OE logic is more complex than a P3. I know first hand P3's are horrible. Could a 1500 have the same logic or close same logic as a 5500? It definitely could cause electric trailer brakes are basic things. No matter how fancy the controller, the trailer brakes only need voltage and amperage to work. A 4k trailer brakes take the same voltage as a 12k trailer. Difference is the size capacity of the brakes. Full voltage of (say 11 volts) will be full braking power of 4k trailer or 12k trailer. 5.5 volts should be half braking power on either trailer.
Hydraulic actuators are the same. A 1600 psi actuator will develop 1600 psi at full brake voltage, say 11 volts. A 1200 psi the same. So no matter how complicated the brake controller is, the brake magnets or hydraulic actuator is only looking for simple input. Like 3 volts vs 11 volts.

Earl

 

[EZeis]

The light and heavy settings are how much intial voltage will apply. Like a minimum value. Like the P3 boost settings 1,2 and 3. All will provide full power output at the top end. Light and heavy settings doesn't lower the full voltage. Gain does that.


Earl

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

The light and heavy settings are how much intial voltage will apply. Like a minimum value. Like the P3 boost settings 1,2 and 3. All will provide full power output at the top end. Light and heavy settings doesn't lower the full voltage. Gain does that.


Earl

Don't forget the scheduled voltage from 0 to MAX. That is done by an algorithm or circuit(s) to determine the amount/rate of voltage required in a given scenario.

 

[Wiredawg]

But we’re discussing the ITBM.....with much different input technology.

We got a new Lab puppy today, so a little distracted.

So, I agree. I tested the 1500 and 5500 with their ITBMs set on EH level 10 with the same tester. The trucks don't know what weight the trailer is, we have to tell it. I believe the 1500 ITMB is setting brakes stronger than the 5500. To me the evidence points to they have the same programming and controllers, or at least the 1500 may have different programming, but equally possible is normal variation of the same systems.

Happy to entertain further agreement and disagreement with supported evidence.

Cheers, Ron

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

We got a new Lab puppy today, so a little distracted.

View attachment 113188

So, I agree. I tested the 1500 and 5500 with their ITBMs set on EH level 10 with the same tester. The trucks don't know what weight the trailer is, we have to tell it. I believe the 1500 ITMB is setting brakes stronger than the 5500. To me the evidence points to they have the same programming and controllers, or at least the 1500 may have different programming, but equally possible is normal variation of the same systems.

Happy to entertain agreement and disagreement with supported evidence.

Cheers, Ron

Good lookin' bundle of mischief you have there.

 

[EZeis]

Don't forget the scheduled voltage from 0 to MAX. That is done by an algorithm or circuit(s) to determine the amount/rate of voltage required in a given scenario.

Yep, that's varies on what inputs the brake controller is seeing and processing. Minimum start, end is max. In between is all controlled by the logic.

Earl