High copper levels

[Cooper_D]

Received this with my Blackstone report:


Copper increased again, and to be honest, we're not really sure why. If this were wear-in from

work you had done, then it should be improving not increasing like this. Copper is from brass/bronze parts,

though we'll also sometimes see it from an oil cooler (harmless oxides). High copper is nothing new, so

assuming you're not having issues, then we'll be okay as long as it doesn't keep climbing. Aluminum is up,

but along with potassium, is likely from brazing flux. The viscosity is in spec and no fuel was found. No

major concerns, but do follow up in 8,000 miles


2015 Ram 2500 with 60k on engine copper level was 225 previous was 112 at 51,500 before that 36 at43,500

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[sag2]

You posted in the EcoDiesel forum. More than likely it is out of the oil cooler. if there's no tin or lead then it certainly didn't come from any bearing material. My 14 Hemi had higher copper levels than that although they did slowly drop off

 

[Cooper_D]

Thanks sag2!!!

Yes I realize it was the wrong forum after I posted so I reported it so it could be changed.

No tin or lead but aluminum is at 10 up from 5 and potassium is 35.

Is this something that I should be worried about or do you think it’ll slowly go away?

Would it be better to change the oil more frequently than 7,500 miles? The oil was shell t6 synthetic, but previously it was the bulk pennzoil the dealership buys for Diesel engines.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Cummins12V98]

How about posting your report so we can view the details.

Here is mine showing all previous reports at 15k each. OH, please hit "FULL" image so we can see it.

 

[Cooper_D]

Here you go

 

[Cooper_D]

This is a record of oil samples from the first oil change until 43,458 miles

 

[sag2]

Thanks sag2!!!

Yes I realize it was the wrong forum after I posted so I reported it so it could be changed.

No tin or lead but aluminum is at 10 up from 5 and potassium is 35.

Is this something that I should be worried about or do you think it’ll slowly go away?

Would it be better to change the oil more frequently than 7,500 miles? The oil was shell t6 synthetic, but previously it was the bulk pennzoil the dealership buys for Diesel engines.

Thanks again for your help!

If you have a 2015 the oil change interval is per the EVIC message or 15,000 miles maximum. Changing it any sooner is just wasting good oil. Especially if your other sample results are good.

 

[Cooper_D]

If you have a 2015 the oil change interval is per the EVIC message or 15,000 miles maximum. Changing it any sooner is just wasting good oil. Especially if your other sample results are good.

Has Ram changed their policy of every 6 months or 15,000 miles? or am I to old school In my thinking. Just asking. I'm not trying to smart off.

 

[pwr2tow]

Received this with my Blackstone report:


Copper increased again, and to be honest, we're not really sure why. If this were wear-in from

work you had done, then it should be improving not increasing like this. Copper is from brass/bronze parts,

though we'll also sometimes see it from an oil cooler (harmless oxides). High copper is nothing new, so

assuming you're not having issues, then we'll be okay as long as it doesn't keep climbing. Aluminum is up,

but along with potassium, is likely from brazing flux. The viscosity is in spec and no fuel was found. No

major concerns, but do follow up in 8,000 miles


2015 Ram 2500 with 60k on engine copper level was 225 previous was 112 at 51,500 before that 36 at43,500

Any help would be appreciated!

Is your truck stock?
Are you using CJ4, CK4? or an older API?

 

[Cooper_D]

View attachment 114021 How about posting your report so we can view the details.

Here is mine showing all previous reports at 15k each. OH, please hit "FULL" image so we can see it.

Comparing mine to yours my copper has always been high!

Is your truck stock?
Are you using CJ4, CK4? or an older API?

The truck is stock!
The oil is Shell Rotella 15w40 for all oil changes except this last one

When I saw the numbers spike up I switched to Shell T6, which I purchased, & took to the dealer for the oil change.

The dealership buys their oils in bulk deliveries

Looking back on it now I should have said something sooner since the universal averages are 6.

If it is an oil cooler, as sag2 suggested, than it has been dumping copper ever since I purchased the truck.

The only problem with that argument is why did it drop to 36 at 43,458 miles.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Has Ram changed their policy of every 6 months or 15,000 miles? or am I to old school In my thinking. Just asking. I'm not trying to smart off.

Under warranty yes but with report your good for longer.

 

[Cummins12V98]

What method are you using to capture sample?

 

[Cooper_D]

I have the 8 year 120,000 mile warranty so if Ram thinks those numbers are ok than I will continue to drive it with regular maintenance.

The dealer is good about pulling a sample mid stream so I should be ok there.

I dropped off my oil report today and the service manager is turning it over to star to decide what to do. Parts department show $800 list for an oil cooler, but that’s not my problem since it’s under warranty.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Not to beat a dead horse but have you WATCHED them take all the samples? If taking from first oil out may explain high numbers and also the one low number may have been taken at mid stream.

 

[Cooper_D]

Not to beat a dead horse but have you WATCHED them take all the samples? If taking from first oil out may explain high numbers and also the one low number may have been taken at mid stream.

No I didn’t stand & watch them pull the sample. The tech who usually does my oil changes knows the proper way to pull a sample.

I use to work with some of employees who work there & the samples they pulled look no different than those pulled by technicians I don’t know.

Because they know me I can watch while the oil change is being done, but that’s not where I should be standing.

The service manager contacted Cummins while I sat in his office and they confirmed what sag2 said “ an oil cooler could be a possibility, but than stopped himself from saying it is the problem, than added the contract Cummins has with FCA won’t allow him to say anything.”

TDR is a tremendous resource!!! It allows me to go into a dealership with knowledge about my problem before I get there. I am blessed to be able to work with a service department that I trust.

If the oil change tech isn’t doing his job correctly it’s not for me to stand there and cuss him out that’s a waste of time.

What I am trying to establish is documentation showing that this could be a problem and than let the service writer, service manager, district manager and corporate find a solution to it.

If after going through this whole process the engine blows up I simply hand them my max care Chrysler service contract and say please remove my $100 deductible from you bill.

The dealer has the option to replace the oil cooler under warranty, but if Chrysler says it wasn’t bad the dealer gets charged back for it.

I worked there long enough to get yelled at, threatened and called everything but AOC by people who spent more money than they could afford on a new vehicle and said no to any service contract and expected me to give it out free of charge.

I’m playing by their rules and their rules protect me.

The parts manager even took me into his office to show me a color picture of what an oil cooler looks like and it looks as if made of copper.

If Ram wants to pull a sample at my next oil change they can pull it next to mine

In the meantime I welcome any suggestions and will answer any that you ask of me.

I come here to read about interesting problems and the interesting solutions, today it’s my turn.

 

[Cummins12V98]

All sounds good! Odd thing is the one low sample.

Sounds like you have it handled.

 

[Cooper_D]

All sounds good! Odd thing is the one low sample.

Sounds like you have it handled.

Thank you!

I don’t get the low one either, but if you look at the universal averages being 6 it is still high at 36.

I love the truck and the dealer has a new 19 decked out the same as mine for over $73k.

When my warranty runs out in 4 years I might be going down to one vehicle. I hate the thought of not having a truck, but by then it’ll be $85k.

Perhaps a short bed 1500 with a v6? Cummins V6?

 

[sag2]

I would not give it a second thought. The copper isn't from the "engine" so not much to worry about.

 

[Cooper_D]

I would not give it a second thought. The copper isn't from the "engine" so not much to worry about.

Thank you!

 

[theamcguy]

This is from the Lube-Tips

Closely Monitor Copper Readings

Copper readings can be alarming when increases are in the hundreds of parts per million. However, huge increases are typically insignificant in terms of component wear. Ironically, small increases in copper are a greater concern and should be examined closely. Copper alloy component wear generally is accompanied by lock-step increases in alloy metals such as lead, tin, aluminum and zinc. While the amount of alloy metal present in brass/bronze components is only a small percentage of the total copper content, changes in these alloys should be taken seriously when present with copper increases. (Alan Johnson, The Halton Co.)