Engine brake for 2005 with 48re

[p-Bar]

Cerb I would probably go with the Pac Brake as I prefer air over the vacuum. So guess I buy it for an 06?

 

[cerberusiam]

I think you would be safe buying and wiring for an 06. Oxymandias says it works so will take his word for it that it is a good setup. A stock transmission I think would be a stretch but a built unit is probably fine.

Both the Jacobs and PAC tap into the ECU B connector at pins 39 and 42 (these pins are undocumneted in the 03-06 FSM so not sure what it really does). This looks to be a simple circuit that when grounded and the throttle goes to 0 percent it completes the circuit activating the EB. Does the ECU now tell the TCM to do something different with lockup than it would if that circuit is open? According to Ozymandias it does so go with it and see how it works.

I would install the PAC as it would on an 06, put a gauge on the middle port on the passenger side of the trans then go drive it to see what happens. If the pressures will stay over 100 psi as the EB activates and slows the truck I think you are good.

On the 47RE we had to use the PowerLoc to keep the pressures up but that is a 2nd gen application where the transmisisons are different, less clutches and lighter TC and no where near the amount of electronic integration. The stock transmission toasted itself with the EB and just TC lockup control, the addition of a TC plus shift kit and PowerLoc solved the problem as as I know.

 

[p-Bar]

Cerb I have a T. C. lock up switch I installed so when I come up to a stop light it starts bucking at low mph and foot off pedal so I know the pressure is there at idle. My transmission guy said I was good to go for an exhaust brake. So 06 it is. Thanks

 

[cerberusiam]

Cerb I have a T. C. lock up switch I installed so when I come up to a stop light it starts bucking at low mph and foot off pedal so I know the pressure is there at idle. My transmission guy said I was good to go for an exhaust brake. So 06 it is. Thanks

Should be good then. Let us know how it works.

 

[sfpcservice]

@cerberusiam FYI there is native exhaust brake control in 04.5-05 trucks for sure and I'm pretty sure for 03-04 as well (I can check tomorrow). On the autos it is effectively turned off and that's why the exhaust brake ECM pins don't work on those years. There is even a parameter for where to set the ttva when the eb is active...

I've gotten into the flash and turned eb control on and am currenty testing it on my truck and can say the ECM control pins for the exhaust brake work now just like they do on a manual 05.

 

[sfpcservice]

Here is some more info regarding running g an exhaust brake on an 05 with 48RE:

https://smartysupport.com/forums/to...ummins-auto-didnt-come-with-an-exhaust-brake/

One thing of note in response to the TTVA talk earlier in this thread; both the 05 and 06 have a parameter to set the TTVA at a predetermined angle when the brake is active. I set mine to Max for Max line pressure and it wouldn't allow the transmission to downshift and lockup correctly. I looked at the 06 flash file because it came with an exhaust brake to see what that model year does and was surprised to see that the TTVA setting was 3 degrees which is basically nothing. I guess they figured the trans has enough holding power as is.

 

[p-Bar]

What if you had an after market valve body that creates higher pressures ? I'm an 04.5 with BD exhaust brake and their computer boxes.

 

[sfpcservice]

Long story short the 06 and 07 have a parameter to bump the throttle which will give the pressure needed to give lockup.

 

[jghflys]

I have the Banks exhaust brake system. It controls the exhaust brake, torque converter lockup and transmission gear to optimize braking. It also has a switch to lock out overdrive. Also closes the exhaust brake for faster engine warm up to 175 DEGF. Works great!

 

[sfpcservice]

I have the Banks exhaust brake system. It controls the exhaust brake, torque converter lockup and transmission gear to optimize braking. It also has a switch to lock out overdrive. Also closes the exhaust brake for faster engine warm up to 175 DEGF. Works great!

Very nice! That is also available in the ecm. In the morning my truck will activate the brake up to 182 degrees. Also got all the downshifts dialed in today, it's a daily process of adjust a little here and there. In stock form the transmission will allow dangerously high rpm locked downshifts so I got that tamed today. I think the sticky widget was even though I have tuned a very decent and safe brake shift pattern, there is NO way a manufacturer could warranty it. I think that is why they chose to wait for the 06 to get it nailed down.

 

[SamuelColt]

At a minimum it requires a shift kit to ramp pressures to adequately handle the extra stresses generated at closed throttle. Once you upgrade the transmission that is probably adequate in most cases, the exception would over weights and long usage times. The one thing that I cannot verify is TTVA control, not sure any controller does it.[/QUOTE]

Brand newby here cerberusian, I have an 05 auto 3500 with the stock transmission, no other mods 170k miles. Took your advice and went with PAC.
In 'tow haul' or dropping to 2, or even 1 manually I get adequate braking for what I'm doing so far (9000# trailer) on Colorado roads, some pretty good hills out this way with long descents that would smoke my brakes before I put in the EB (and my trailer brakes work although I'm probably setting them on the low end to avoid smoking them too). I don't use the EB unless I'm in 'tow haul' which is pretty much all I use the truck for.
You recommend a "shift kit" to ramp pressures.
- Are you describing something like the BD-Power Transmission valve body (think the part number is 1030423)?
- Any benefit to a deeper pan just to get more fluid and cooling or is that just marketing?
Thanks for the help

 

[WalterJ]

I have a Banks EB on my stock 2005 2500 4x4 Auto. My kit has 2 toggle switches, one turns the EB on or off, the other is a 4th gear lock out switch. I'm towing about 15K and on a 6% grade for several miles (that usually has a tailwind) I touch the trailer brakes maybe once or twice, to keep it at 60, never the truck brakes. No tail wind, I have stayed below 60 without any braking.

Ditto performance with my '04.5, i.e.<60 downhill in Tow Haul...very comforting & saved $$$ on replacement pads! Couldn't use it with my Smarty Touch via OBD port. Tried a splitter cable but no-joy. ...so I swapped my cigar lighter with an Angel Eye PB switch and engage the EB manually as needed.

 

[cerberusiam]

Shift kit like a TransGo Shift kit or Superior Shift Correction kit. The custom valve bodies are the same thing with the vendor specific build in them, essentially all the parts of a shift kit plus other added mods. If I wanted buy a modded VB instead of using a shift kit I would go with one from Hawk Transmission Services.

For raise the pressure on a truck with a TTVA motor this is and example of what would work https://www.dieselperformance.com/s...control-dodge-2005-2007-48re-transmission-547. Cycle the TH button to get it out of OD as EB braking in OD is useless and it should work if the pressures get boosted a bit and the TC locked. Does it actually lock the TC and you get good braking in manual 1st?

 

[sfpcservice]

On my 05 auto I have my pxrb pacbrake setup to run from the ecm via my own custom tuning. I do have a shift kit, but as I mentioned above even the 06-07 trucks (which can run a brake with stock tuning) don't ramp the ttva. I have confirmed this by looking at that parameter (ttva setting with eb on) in the flash files.

I think the reason they didn't offer a brake as an option on the 05 auto was due to computer space limitations or a crunch on time during development. Reason being is when the tcc unlocks for a downshift the engine rpms drop to idle and there isn't enough pressure in the trans to lock the TC back up for the brake to function properly. The 06 and 07 trucks have an additional brake parameter in the flash file that gooses the engine low speed governor to raise pressure very briefly which causes the tcc to relock. There is even a parameter that counts missed relocks.

There is no parameter in the ecm to run the brake and tc lock in 1st at all, but using the tow haul switch (set to OD Off) and manually downshifting to 2nd I get brake activation in 4th, 3rd and manual 2nd down to about 15mph. I disabled the automatic 4-3 downshift when the brake is active because it was annoying. I actually like the brake in 4th with it's slight effect and then pressing tow haul will get me 3rd with a much more pronounced braking effect. A manual downshift to 2nd creates a locked downshift (to maintain lockup) which I set to happen at a lower output shaft speed than stock for safety and you can REALLY feel the brake there.

It has taken a lot of tweaking and flashing of the truck but as it stands now it's very reliable and user friendly with no need for an external box controller.

 

[sfpcservice]

I would add, a box controller could inject a command to goose the throttle for relock like the 06-07 trucks do which would eliminate the need for locked downshifts like I'm using to hold lockup. So far with safe output shaft limits on when it will allow the downshift this hasn't been a problem for me even with a stock input shaft, and the shifts are firm but not violent.

 

[p-Bar]

Call Goerend transmissions and talk to them they can do a valve body that will do the trick

 

[SamuelColt]

Shift kit like a TransGo Shift kit or Superior Shift Correction kit. The custom valve bodies are the same thing with the vendor specific build in them, essentially all the parts of a shift kit plus other added mods. If I wanted buy a modded VB instead of using a shift kit I would go with one from Hawk Transmission Services.

For raise the pressure on a truck with a TTVA motor this is and example of what would work https://www.dieselperformance.com/s...control-dodge-2005-2007-48re-transmission-547. Cycle the TH button to get it out of OD as EB braking in OD is useless and it should work if the pressures get boosted a bit and the TC locked. Does it actually lock the TC and you get good braking in manual 1st?

Thanks for the feedback and I'll check that out. I don't know what is actually going on in the TC and this is my first EB so I don't have a good frame of reference but if I'm going down hill and it's in tow haul and I activate the EB I definitely feel it slowing, but it releases at ~41 mph (as others have stated in this thread). When I'm getting close to that I'll manually drop it to 2 and it will continue braking noticeably until around 22 mph, so right before that I'll drop it to 1. I'm satisfied with the braking but can't afford a new transmission.. the EB parts cost me too much already.

Googling Hawk gets me a shop in KC. Would you please post a link to what you recommend?

Again, thanks for the help!

 

[SamuelColt]

Interesting conversation with Goerend. Basically he advised against a VB with the standard torque converter. Said the pressures would tear up a stock TC. He DID say that you could put a lock up switch in for low speed towing to keep the temps down. I've seen how to do that elsewhere on the forum but ass-u-me d that it would be more problematic than not having one.
He gave two examples:
- slow up hill under load, you're in second gear and your transmission temps will cook without a lock up and
- you're going 5 mph over a rough field loading hay bales
In both those scenarios he said you'd be better off locked. Said when in doubt leave it off but if you see your temps climbing, hit it. Of course I don't have a transmission temp gauge but that's a different issue.
More confused now than I was when I started.

 

[sfpcservice]

I've been running a valve body with a shift kit on a torco (low cost) torque converter for over 3 years with plenty of towing. No signs of failing yet, but that's only my experience.

 

[sfpcservice]

Also, slow uphill in 2nd... Shift to manual 2nd and get to about 25mph and the TC should lock, stock. Manual second is good up to about 40ish mph unless you have 4:11's.