Supertech DEF production date

[RVTRKN]

sag, is there an interval recommendation to remove and clean system, also is this a DIY friendly item?

 

[kthaxton]

The crystals you see there are more than likely caused by the DEF evaporating as it left the injector, or dribbling out of the injector when the engine was shut off and the water evaporated in the heat of the SCR CAT. The other cause could be debris stuck in the injector and then it clogs and the spray pattern is not correct. That in turn leads to more crystallization as the water evaporates and more crystals are left behind. But even debris in the system should be trapped by the filters and screens.
If it was caused by the Urea falling out of solution, it should be caught by one of the filters or screens before it reaches the injector.
All of the situations shown could be cleaned up by soaking in water if someone took the time to do it. The injectors can also be cleaned by soaking in water, but most dealers/shops will just want to throw parts at it. See the TDR issue 102 page 104 for some additional background on DEF faults.

Exactly, as I said TC, due to the water evaporating, not urea separating. Chemicals that are miscible do not simply separate.

It's similar to one of the things I deal with daily....I run an industrial waste water treatment system that treats plating solution waste. All of those metals in our waste are "in solution", they do not come out of solution, over time, by separating. They need to be treated chemically to precipitate out of solution. This is accomplished either by raising the pH by itself (to a specific pH), or by REDOX (reduction/oxidation) first, and then pH adjustment (as is the case with Chromium) THEN it will settle or be caught in a filter. Without chemical treatment, it won't settle and it can't be filtered.

Oh yeah......LMBO TC.

 

[TCDiesel]

The crystals you see there are more than likely caused by the DEF evaporating as it left the injector, or dribbling out of the injector when the engine was shut off and the water evaporated in the heat of the SCR CAT. The other cause could be debris stuck in the injector and then it clogs and the spray pattern is not correct. That in turn leads to more crystallization as the water evaporates and more crystals are left behind. But even debris in the system should be trapped by the filters and screens.
If it was caused by the Urea falling out of solution, it should be caught by one of the filters or screens before it reaches the injector.
All of the situations shown could be cleaned up by soaking in water if someone took the time to do it. The injectors can also be cleaned by soaking in water, but most dealers/shops will just want to throw parts at it. See the TDR issue 102 page 104 for some additional background on DEF faults.

YEP.. I've been on the phone with dealerships through Out N/A and they claim their hands are tied, even when the Owner is willing to Pay for the cleaning.

 

[TCDiesel]

Exactly, as I said TC, due to the water evaporating, not urea separating. Chemicals that are miscible do not simply separate.

It's similar to one of the things I deal with daily....I run an industrial waste water treatment system that treats plating solution waste. All of those metals in our waste are "in solution", they do not come out of solution, over time, by separating. They need to be treated chemically to precipitate out of solution. This is accomplished either by raising the pH by itself (to a specific pH), or by REDOX (reduction/oxidation) first, and then pH adjustment (as is the case with Chromium) THEN it will settle or be caught in a filter. Without chemical treatment, it won't settle and it can't be filtered.

Oh yeah......LMBO TC.

What fake info is your scale telling you to promote today.

Separation, The action or state of moving or being moved apart, the damage that might arise from the separation.

The water is Harmless, its the left over Urea thats damaging.

 

[kthaxton]

CHEMICAL separation:
A separation process is a method that converts a mixture or solution of chemical substances into two or more distinct product mixtures.[1] At least one of results of the separation is enriched in one or more of the source mixture's constituents. In some cases, a separation may fully divide the mixture into pure constituents. Separations exploit differences in chemical properties or physical properties (such as size, shape, mass, density, or chemical affinity) between the constituents of a mixture.

Processes are often classified according to the particular differences they use to achieve separation. If no single difference can be used to accomplish a desired separation, multiple operations can often be combined to achieve the desired end.

With a few exceptions, elements or compounds exist in nature in an impure state. Often these raw materials must go through a separation before they can be put to productive use, making separation techniques essential for the modern industrial economy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_process

Get yourself a clear container, put DEF if it, seal is as much as possible to minimize evaporation, watch it for weeks, months, years, note any separation. You won't.

No fake info here, just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean it is fake. But by all means, specifically, what is fake about what I said? Be specific now.

 

[TCDiesel]

Its more misleading = fake, You demand that everyone follow YOUR following, You twist up defame anyone that disagrees with your Very limited Knowledge , Your WASTE water comparison is laughable.

In all your postings in this thread YOU provided 0 facts that 32.5% DEF is the answer and that its required to meet the CAA ( You only provided what someone else claims) You simply follow the Status Quo you have not provided any challenge on the Merits of Self effort. Other then Keystrokes.

These are the Level to meet , You can meet these levels at 10-15% concentrate 95+% of driving. You would need to Drive 700K+ miles at just a fractions of these levels to produce a Few OZ NOx. You need NOT to worry or fear people Like KT that promote their own agendas, Their are NO laws or regulations requiring 32.5% Check the EPA and find something that 32.5% is required and I will re-cant. Its just a cert that API requires.

 

[kthaxton]

I demand people "follow my following"? Sooo much drama......

My waste water example perfectly correlates to how chemicals that are miscible simply don't "separate"....apparently the relevance is beyond you.

 

[TCDiesel]

I demand people "follow my following"? Sooo much drama......

My waste water example perfectly correlates to how chemicals that are miscible simply don't "separate"....apparently the relevance is beyond you.

Yep.. its beyond Me, its the directions that counts.

 

[kthaxton]

You need NOT to worry or fear people Like KT that promote their own agendas,

I have an agenda? You think I sell DEF or something?

Their are NO laws or regulations requiring 32.5% Check the EPA and find something that 32.5% is required and I will re-cant. Its just a cert that API requires.

This, I can guarantee you, if you have vehicle and engine manufacturers stating you must use a product meeting a particular specification (as seen below from Cummins as I posted previously), especially to meet emission requirements, and you don't, the EPA will construe this as a violation. As I said before, you're not likely to get caught, but it most certainly could be considered a violation. If their emission testing/certification was obtained using 32.5% DEF, then it must be used to be in compliance.

A. Cummins Filtration does not recommend customers make DEF themselves. DEF has strict requirements for maintaining concentration and purity of ingredients that is critical to the proper functioning and longevity of the SCR system. Cummins and other OEMs require that DEF used with their SCR systems meet all ISO22241 specifications as well as API certification requirements. It is recommended that end users purchase certified DEF and avoid blending it themselves. For more information about the quality standards, refer to ISO22241 which details specifications for DEF quality, handling, testing, transportation storage, and refilling

For example, we have some emission scrubbers in our facility, EPA does not specify in its regulations HOW we operate these pieces of equipment, they REQUIRE that we operate them in accordance with the manufacturers recommendations. If we do not operate them per the recommendations, we are in violation of the CAA and we could get fined.

So you can keep going around in circles if you want claiming that nothings says 32.5% is required.....if very likely may not state those exact words, but going against manufacturers requirements in and of itself, is still a violation.

 

[TCDiesel]

I have NO problem with what Cummins Recommends , I would NOT want the KT's of this world blending their own products either. I recommend YOU follow Cummins.....

For those that want alternatives less concentrate will lessen the likely hood of DEF problems , Thus keeping the system intact.


ISO22241 and API just a standard... their you go again with I guarantee YOU

I demand people "follow my following"?

 

[kthaxton]

"Just a standard".....like oil standards......they don't mean anything right?

 

[TCDiesel]

Yes they do, and Standards Change...Obviously YOU believe / support that every standard is beyond challenging , Also Just like Law codes MINIUNUM are required to meet for safety and health reason(s) and I follow those, and challenge the ones that I believe are incorrect or need changing, I did My own testing and My results differ with the Standard, if My testing found that 32.5% was necessary to meet CAA , this thread would have never been started.

YOU have stated your view of 32.5% and I've noted it, now let's let readers and Members decide what direction to take, Just like Us.

 

[kthaxton]

I did My own testing and My results differ with the Standard, if My testing found that 32.5% was necessary to meet CAA , this thread would have never been started.

It's only that you are missing the part I am attempting to explain to you....the end result (your emissions) aren't all that is required to be legal especially since I doubt you are a certified EPA testing facility.

YOU have stated your view of 32.5% and I've noted it, now let's let readers and Members decide what direction to take, Just like Us.

Of course, by all means, they can do as they wish. I'm merely pointing it out when you post incorrect information. If someone chooses to do this, they should do it knowing the correct information, not just the information you presented.

 

[RVTRKN]

Sure is a lot of noise, how about how to prevent buildup, like a post with detailed picks for DIY’ers. If the injector can be cleaned, I would remove the complete system to get the deposits that did solidify cleaned off.

 

[TCDiesel]

It can be cleaned, if you have tools, its easy if willing to crawl under the truck for 15-20 Minutes.

 

[pwr2tow]

Sure is a lot of noise, how about how to prevent buildup, like a post with detailed picks for DIY’ers. If the injector can be cleaned, I would remove the complete system to get the deposits that did solidify cleaned off.

That's why I mentioned earlier maybe just maybe since crystalized urea/solid urea can be dissolved by lower concentrations a perceived once in a while lower concentration or plain distilled water added/introduced might prevent future problems. If lower concentrations don't set any codes I really don't see any harm only benefits.

For all the what laws might be in the future maybe we should just wait until it's really a law and not just some might be.

 

[Newsa]

I would never "blend" my own. But nothing wrong with adding an occasional 16 oz of reagent grade DI water to the tank to fend off any crystalization somewhere in the system.

But running too thin of DEF could give "out of range" NOx readings in some trucks

 

[josephc1]

Trying a little test. My DEF gauge was 1/2 into the red zone. I added two and a half gallon jug of def and 16oz of distilled water. The gauge read just a bit over 3/4 tank. I have about 300 miles on the "blend" so far so good. Any idea what the urea concentration would be with that blend. I'll post if I have any issues or warnings.

 

[pwr2tow]

Trying a little test. My DEF gauge was 1/2 into the red zone. I added two and a half gallon jug of def and 16oz of distilled water. The gauge read just a bit over 3/4 tank. I have about 300 miles on the "blend" so far so good. Any idea what the urea concentration would be with that blend. I'll post if I have any issues or warnings.

Fill out your signature so we know what truck you're doing this on.
And thank you.

 

[Newsa]

Trying a little test. My DEF gauge was 1/2 into the red zone. I added two and a half gallon jug of def and 16oz of distilled water. The gauge read just a bit over 3/4 tank. I have about 300 miles on the "blend" so far so good. Any idea what the urea concentration would be with that blend. I'll post if I have any issues or warnings.

If you had 0.2 gal of residual def in your tank (and the residual was still 32.5%), the new concentration would be 31.06%. If you had 1/2 gal of residual 32 5% in tank before adding def + DI water, your new concentration would be 31.2% which is a small dilution of the 32.5%.

I would expect that a thinner solution (lower concentration) would more readily keep crystals in solution and more readily dissolve any crystals that might precipitate out. But I don't have a solubility curve for urea to look at how the solubility in water would be affected by temp