Supertech DEF production date

[TCDiesel]

986 miles, 92 gallons of fuel towing my 10K# 5th wheel RV and the DEF gauge still reads full. That's the way the gauge acted with a full tank of 32.5% DEF pulling around that distance. Don't know for sure but it doesn't look like it's using any more out of the DEF tank with 2 1/4 gallons of DW added to the 2 1/2 gallons of fresh 32.5% def. One other thing, no codes, no cel.

Your on you're way to that Steak meal or what ever you like, Plus no need to worry about Messages to destroy Your Vacation in connection with DEF System.

 

[Newsa]

I think the injector nozzle always sprays the same amount. It will just increase the number of injections per time period if it experiencea high NOx..... Up to a point.

 

[TCDiesel]

I just did this Snap shot 2013-17 will be similar. Its much faster with Alfa then My WITech Plus its $0.00 other than the $120.0 for MX and Alfa Software.

 

[pwr2tow]

So I started the test last night. The DEF was showing about 2/3 so I'm not positive on the actual level in the tank. I added 1 gallon of distilled water and it took the concentration from 32% to 25%. Probably not scientific, but the DEF dosing rate at idle was 9-11 g/hr before when it was at 32%, and 11-13 g/hr at 25%. At first glance it would appear that it just upped the dosing rate to compensate for the diluted DEF. I have not been driving the truck much so it will take a while to get any feedback on using the diluted mixture. I will also bring the refractometer home from school and double check the accuracy of the in tank sensor. It does appear to be fairly accurate as I first put in a little less than 1/2 gallon, went around the block and it was at 30%.

What truck are you doing this in? None of the trucks in your signature use DEF.
EDIT:
Oops, too many commas in your signature, did not catch that, I see it's your 2018.

 

[lpennock]

I wouldn't try this with a 2018 unless you just want to see how low you can go before it trips CEL. The 2018 monitors DEF%.

 

[AH64ID]

I wouldn't try this with a 2018 unless you just want to see how low you can go before it trips CEL. The 2018 monitors DEF%.

Mine is at 33% right now, and just under 1/4 tank of DEF. I'll if it changes much when I top off this week.

 

[TCDiesel]

Here we Go , keep in mine their are 2016 & 17 Running lower concentrates for many Months, 2016 and 18 are the same systems , 2017 similar and 2013-15 are the same. disregard the AM senor in 13-15.

For those of us that have been around for Decades, We know that makers will substitute values. IMO 2016-18 DEF systems are just looking for a Value not a targeted value.

 

[sag2]

I wouldn't try this with a 2018 unless you just want to see how low you can go before it trips CEL. The 2018 monitors DEF%.

See post 135. I'm testing to see if and when if throws a CEL. The most likely faults I expect to see are P1C54, P207F, and P20EE. TC says it will not, I believe it will.

 

[TCDiesel]

2019...........

 

[TCDiesel]

What specification? I cannot find the value in any publication. So its tried and true method, and I would if I had a 18-19.
KB claims he's been doing it just like in his 2013, I have No reason to dis-believe him at this point......

 

[sag2]

You are correct that it does not give a value for what sets the code(s), but I don't believe they would have the different codes if you could go to 0% DEF and not have a problem.
That's what I want to try and prove out, what is the threshold? If nothing else it will be a good learning experience for my students.

 

[JR]

I wouldn't try this with a 2018 unless you just want to see how low you can go before it trips CEL. The 2018 monitors DEF%.

What unit of measurement is being used on the DEF dosage rate?

 

[TCDiesel]

You are correct that it does not give a value for what sets the code(s), but I don't believe they would have the different codes if you could go to 0% DEF and not have a problem.
That's what I want to try and prove out, what is the threshold? If nothing else it will be a good learning experience for my students.

Absolutely, No need to do 0%, My data was accurate at near 0 NOx at 10 to 17%.

Here's how the Near NOx gets reduced in Bluetech engines , The EGR returns exhaust gases to intake to lower the Flame temp ( This is the greatest reduction in NOx ) after combustion the majority of gases travel to the SCR Catalyst, their is a NOx senor in the Turbine outlet to measure the NOx before the SCR/DPF the Precious metal react with the gases and the NOx to an element of Nitrogen the DEF, H2O CH4 reacts with the left over NOx, the water vaporizes to H, and O, the H mixes with the NOx to form AM, all the urea does covert the NOx to near 0 PPM. whatever leftover Urea converts to N and O, the left over H goes out the Tail pipe to reform as H2O.... BAME clean tail pipe emissions for generations to come....

Sag2 ,whats Odd is FCA diagnostic and testing what to use the... refractometer ... NOT WITECH readings of the Urea Sensor, I checked the Dealership records The Parts dept has NEVER sold the Urea sensor in connection with the tank, no one in the service dept has ever diagnose a bad Urea sensor. Have you ever ran into the codes with good DEF and Bad Sensor?

Their No Sensor(s) after the DEF injector, If the system cannot lower the NOx (NOx sensor 2 ) to program defaults it triggers codes or the DEF feed Pressures to DEF Injector or the DEF heat sensor all trigger codes, Or Bad connections to interrupt comm signals, Bad connections are 1/2 of SCR/DEF codes....So Dia-electric all of them or its only time if you live in areas that promote corrosion or water get past the grommets.

 

[lpennock]

What unit of measurement is being used on the DEF dosage rate?

AlfaOBD says g/h. g being gallon wouldn't make sense based on my readings so I'm guessing it is grams per hour.

 

[Newsa]

I don't know of any stats about how often owners need servicing of DEF pumps or nozzles. It seems from looking at DEF codes/faults on here about half of them are fixed with a simple computer flash. My.last message was fixed with a computer flash.... Apparently i was missing an RTF update.

 

[JR]

AlfaOBD says g/h. g being gallon wouldn't make sense based on my readings so I'm guessing it is grams per hour.

That's what I was thinking, it's just not as common a unit of measurement for liquid which threw me off. 7 grams/hr is equivalent to roughly .25 oz. Given DEF usage is about 2% of fuel usage that would put the engine at around 12.5 gallons/hr fuel consumption.
Not that any of this matters, I just find it interesting. I cannot monitor any of this on my 14.

 

[Newsa]

Here's how the Near NOx gets reduced in Bluetech engines , The EGR returns exhaust gases to intake to lower the Flame temp ( This is the greatest reduction in NOx ) after combustion the majority of gases travel to the SCR Catalyst, their is a NOx senor in the Turbine outlet to measure the NOx before the SCR/DPF the Precious metal react with the gases and the NOx to an element of Nitrogen the DEF, H2O CH4 reacts with the left over NOx, the water vaporizes to H, and O, the H mixes with the NOx to form AM, all the urea does covert the NOx to near 0 PPM. whatever leftover Urea converts to N and O, the left over H goes out the Tail pipe to reform as H2O.... BAME clean tail pipe emissions for generations to come....

I'm going to question the chemistry of the bold statements above. It is true that not all of the oxygen gets used in combustion of diesel fuel in the cylinder. SOME of the O2 gets converted to NOx (combines with N2) and some passes through the entire exhaust system as O2..... Especially when an operator takes his/her foot off the accelerator, plenty of oxygen gets pumped though the entire exhaust system because unlike gas engines (especially with throttle bodies) the diesel engine completely defuels itself when coasting. (Not sure if it completely defuels when actively regenerating) The oxygen has to be present in the DPF for proper functionality.

CH4 is methane gas and would immediately burn with O2. So it would not combine with anything else. (Especially not extremely inert NOx.) The urea only needs heat to change to NH3 it doesn't combine with H2 or CH4 to do that. That is why you do get an ammonia smell when opening a DEF bottle because it can change to NH3 slowly even without exhaust heat. In fact, ammonia is a gas but when dissolved in water it is ammonium hydroxide NH4OH. H2 and O2 will not combine with anything other than themselves because hydrogen gas is very explosive and highly reactive in the presence of Oxygen gas. So i call out the chemistry cited above as wrong.

 

[AH64ID]

That's what I was thinking, it's just not as common a unit of measurement for liquid which threw me off. 7 grams/hr is equivalent to roughly .25 oz. Given DEF usage is about 2% of fuel usage that would put the engine at around 12.5 gallons/hr fuel consumption.
Not that any of this matters, I just find it interesting. I cannot monitor any of this on my 14.

12.5 gallons/hour is really high.

60 mph at 8 mpg is only 7.5 gal/hr of fuel.

 

[dieselshadow]

Most modern gasoline engines also completely de-fuel during coasting situations.

 

[Newsa]

Most modern gasoline engines also completely de-fuel during coasting situations.

Yes if direct injected. If having a throttle body, they have less control.

Edit: I am curious how this cummins fuel system and drive by wire works. I was pleasantly surprised that i am able to roll start (pop clutch usually in 3rd gear) my G56-equipped cummins whether hot or cold. So it does fuel up pretty darn quick.

I'm guessing it fuels up anywhere below 1000-1200 RPM with the iginition on.

Gassers likely fuel up closer to 1500-1600 RPM?