CP4.2 Owners Club

[TCDiesel]

Early GM Duramax's had Fuel coolers LB7-LLY-LBZ-LMM,2001-10, Yep You guest it GM drop it on the LML with CP4...……..2011-16

 

[Cummins12V98]

The 2019 rear separator filter is indeed a cartridge style now. I’ll ask over on CF if anyone has changed their filters on a 2019 yet and see if the rear separator is Fleetguard or another manufacturer.

I had not originally intended in perusing this thread, but I got sucked into it. Appears to be some decent material in here as well.

Thanks!

 

[JR]

It's a safe bet it's not a Fleetguard. Geno's lists the same filter # for 2019 Ram 2500/3500 CTD as the 2020 Eco Diesel primary.

Lowest cost bidder. Very possible it's still a Racor.

 

[Wayne M.]

IDK why they must mess with a decent design.

 

[Newsa]

It the return fuel is 160-240 Fahrenheit, serms like that temp might keep the fuel warm enough to evaporate water and running down to 1/4 tank would kill bugs. Likely the entire 1/4 tank is at 160 F... Which kills most bugs if held there for 5 mins

 

[TCDiesel]

Newsa ,what happens to the Additive package at high Heat temps?.... I wish I had more Time to experiment, No-limit MFG is expanding, and its consuming all of My off season Time.... I've seen locked up pumps and Injector form the left over asphaltenes at what temp did this happen?. It simply gets to dangerous Lube temps. I here Ya on the Bugs and algae. Fuel Lube travels at the edge of Failure at times, go over the Edge and its $$$$ in Repairs.

I'm still working on the tail pipe analyzer would like to get that Project started.

 

[Tuesdak]

Early GM Duramax's had Fuel coolers LB7-LLY-LBZ-LMM,2001-10, Yep You guest it GM drop it on the LML with CP4...……..2011-16

Is this "the entire story"? A fuel cooler on say a Duramax LLY's is required beacuse fuel is used to cool the Fuel Injection Control Module (FICM) electronics. Using fuel to cool electronics worked so well for the DS4 PMD (Pump Mounted Driver electronics baking in the heat of the engine valley.) on the 6.5 GM diesel that Cummins had to join the misery with the electronics packed VP44... And GM continued to use fuel to cool things off. Did the later LML also fuel cool electronics and were the electronics more efficient: as in dumped less waste heat into the fuel?

TC, I get high performance examples used to make a point. That twin pump setup sounds like it needs a fuel cooler, but, the point of high pressure fuel going to low tank pressure and the heat generated from high pressure doing so wasn't clear. High pressure "leaks" heating things up AND other heat sources heating the fuel... Maybe I misunderstand all the ways a second pump heats things up more.

At the end of the day I have trouble keeping roller camshafts in Engine Oil alive. The 6 month oil change and roller cams being long overdue on the Cummins, yeah, they had better know about the Bean Counter Value Engineering they just did to lube a IP roller cam with diesel fuel. Excuse me, what "improvements" were done for the Cummins CP4 to overcome it's design flaw(s) on thin low lube U.S.A. diesel where OUR "feel good" extreme emissions are tighter than the E.U.? Again other OEM's have proven it to be an expensive on the owner's wallet failure so the differences are? What is going to dim the crystal ball predicting the expensive to repair future here?

Alternatives are available like the Denso system that also uses a CP3 like slider instead of the proven a durability failure roller cam design. 36 seconds shows the Supply Pump to the rails design...



At the end of the day it's just more Value Engineering, bluntly, Bean Counters that are messing with a High Mile Legend forgetting the lessons from other OEM's. Not all 5.9's and 6.7's made it, but, Cummins has done more to prove the expected Diesel Long Life Legend than any other engine used in automotive or pickups. (Only second to the 7.3 Ford IF you didn't pinhole the cyl liners.) Look at the scrap resale value of say the early Duramax trucks that almost always needed a $5000.00 set of injectors when they hit the ads. The Duramax engine itself was done because other diesel engines were stomping the HP wars looser throwaway GM 6.5 diesel so badly. (Injection system parts are cheap for the 6.5 vs. the HPCR parts.) Ford designed their own engine after a 6.0 Hand Grenade went off. ("I thought only Oldsmobile ever made a diesel this unreliable!") Both GM and Ford have had to "follow" and catch up to Dodge RAM's use of a Cummins. In looking at "For Sale" one thing has stood out: crazy high 1/4 million mile plus Cummins Pickup ads for stupid high money. Diesel Ford or Diesel GM is not-so-common in the 250+K mile ranges and don't have the resale when they do. Oh, it only has to live for the 100K warranty: Then why am I going to care if it has a Cummins in it anymore? Especially when IMO the entire reason for the GM lawsuit is the denied warranty claims due to alleged "bad fuel" and the FCA owners manual that also puts "bad fuel" on the owner; owner's wallet, fuel station, fuel supplier, and owners insurance company.

No my fellow TDR members: it's my hope that the CP4 is a 2019 mistake that corrected in the 2020 RAM Cummins with better alternatives that are available Today.

 

[TCDiesel]

Yep, Dual pumps add to the heat...Yes, IN addition, coolers fuel adds HP, All My competition trucks have fuel cooler in the Ice Box. We have Dyno cold Fuel vs Hot fuel, Not to mention all the added advantages of cooler Fuel.

Tuesdak, So True on the Bean counters legendary long life...He's My take, 5.9-6.7 HPCR component's AVG life is about 250-350K, some were in this area parts like pump and Injectors need replacing or freshening up. Yep maybe you can go farther, but at what risk?

 

[TFucili]

I have read the current TDR issue, including the info regarding the CP4.2. I saw no material evidence that the pump was improved. When you look at the CP3 and CP4 torn down side by side, to me there is no denying the CP3 is a much more robust design, with the added bonus that it doesn't take everything out downstream in the event of a failure. A beancounter move, for sure.

 

[Wayne M.]

I thought the whole point in discussing fuel coolers was to control the return fuel tank temps, and which in turn keeps a good environment in the tank during high temp/ low fuel level usage.
Regarding the fuel cooled GM PCM, I thought that was on the supply side. I don’t see many duramax’s at all, but I did chase a problem with a 2007 era kodiak not long ago.

 

[Newsa]

Doesn't the engine come from Cummins with the HPCR and fuel pump already installed?

Maybe it was Cummins' decision to cut costs and possibly decrease their standing in the diesel pickup truck world?

 

[Ozymandias]

Doesn't the engine come from Cummins with the HPCR and fuel pump already installed?

Maybe it was Cummins' decision to cut costs and possibly decrease their standing in the diesel pickup truck world?

Yes it does, I've seen the assembly line.

 

[dieselshadow]

Where are all the failures of this 4.2?

 

[sag2]

CP3 equipped Cummins also send debris downstream. Cant count the number of complete fuel systems covered under warranty because of debris in the entire system.

 

[Cummins12V98]

"Maybe it was Cummins' decision to cut costs and possibly decrease their standing in the diesel pickup truck world?"

This engine goes into other applications besides RAM. Can't have anything to do with RAM. Cummins IMHO would not use something that will cause a bunch of issues.

 

[Newsa]

"Maybe it was Cummins' decision to cut costs and possibly decrease their standing in the diesel pickup truck world?"

This engine goes into other applications besides RAM. Can't have anything to do with RAM. Cummins IMHO would not use something that will cause a bunch of issues.

Maybe Cummins doesn't warranty their engines?

If an entire fuel system goes out, maybe it is the generator manufacturer, the boat manufacturer, the agricultural equipment company and Ram that gets stuck with the bill for warranty repairs?

 

[Cummins12V98]

Then they will loose customers. They are not that dumb.
When was the last time you heard of a Ford failure? I have not for a LONG time.

 

[TCDiesel]

CP3 equipped Cummins also send debris downstream. Cant count the number of complete fuel systems covered under warranty because of debris in the entire system.

The only way any Ram CP3 is goona send debris to injectors is if the suction valve self Destructs. and even at that its Kills the Hole (No fuel to deliver for combustion) The Fuel simply enters the Inlet it travels to the GP, the GP than Raises the Fuel pressure to whatever the COV is set at, the majority goes to the Internals then returns to the tank. CP3s do not last long when the Internal miss-behave, The Cam beets the Lifters and then the outer diameter of the pistons fails and the lifter shatter and the self destruct begins and ends the WHOLE matter last 3-5 Seconds..

The Likelihood of Debris traveling its way to Injectors from the Pump Destruction extremely Rare, More like the Ram just covering it, or the Debris is from other source(s)

 

[TCDiesel]

Piston...……..

 

[Tuesdak]

I have read the current TDR issue, including the info regarding the CP4.2. I saw no material evidence that the pump was improved. When you look at the CP3 and CP4 torn down side by side, to me there is no denying the CP3 is a much more robust design, with the added bonus that it doesn't take everything out downstream in the event of a failure. A beancounter move, for sure.

I wonder if the price of the 2018 CP3 can be posted up as it was missing in the "Everything's Fine. Couldn't be lighter." article. Over Six Grand for a 2019 6.7 CP4-2?! Injector cost at @$2500 times six... $15,000.00! Yeah that will lighten more things up like your wallet, 401K, 2nd home loan, etc!

The 3.0L diesel CP4-2 at $700.00

WTH the numbers are way off?