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12 Valve low power!

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Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Fuel Filter Location

Hello all. I will start with my truck specs as that always helps. Despite my username my current cummins is a manual.
Rusty is a 1998 2500 215 pump with the NV4500. 360k miles. 53 block

So, ever since i got this truck i have felt that it was low in power. Found many boost leaks and had the turbo re-sealed. Now the truck pushes 28-30 lbs of boost. 4 inch exhaust with muffler. (pa law). BHAF air filter. EGT and boost gauge. New overflow,new afc line. Then i had new stock injectors put in. That made the truck worse. About the same power but now it will pop and blow blue smoke at 2200 rpm when cold in second gear. That increases to 2800-3k rpm when warm. Of course 3k rpm is all it has. Its a one owner truck before me. Pump has never been touched, Anti tamp screw still in place. Ive done an oil sample and the results were great.

Why i say low power. It has nothing under 1700 rpm. Put 3-4k pounds of trailer behind it and im pulling hills in 3rd. It has to be really wound up to feel the torque. Ive thrown thousands at this thing since i got it. Ive got thousands to go if i want it the way i do. But i have to make sure the engine is good. What i mean by the way i want it, is to have it nice yet in stock form . Maybe turn the pump up. 3k springs blah blah.

It is going to Cummins on the 26th.

Whats the point of the post. I have found lots of these low power posts. You read through them all. Get to the end and the OP has abandoned the chat with no resolution. Well, i fully intend on giving a full report. With a final result.

id like to see what anyone has to say. A place your bets if you will. If you need/want more info just ask.

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Then i had new stock injectors put in. That made the truck worse. About the same power but now it will pop and blow blue smoke at 2200 rpm when cold in second gear. That increases to 2800-3k rpm when warm. Of course 3k rpm is all it has. Its a one owner truck before me. Pump has never been touched, Anti tamp screw still in place.

This doesn’t add up. You say the truck ran fine until you replaced injectors and now “it pops and blows blue smoke.” What you describe is a timing problem.
 
This doesn’t add up. You say the truck ran fine until you replaced injectors and now “it pops and blows blue smoke.” What you describe is a timing problem.

I didn't say it was fine. I said it was low and power then after I had the injectors installed it does the popping and blue smoke especially when cold in higher RPM.

Do they typically jump timing? I've had tons of 24 valves, common rails and 6.7 but this is my first 12 valve.
 
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Isn't the 12V a dog anyways?
Just driving with my buddies 98 24V 215HP made me fall asleep instantly, that thing was so lame before we helped it. First impression was - this can't be real, must be a bad nightmare.

I've never driven a 12V... just asking.
 
There is a pretty good local shop nearby me, they have a good reputation, besides the name is a little miss leading it's not a crank the pump up shop.

I'm sure it's not cheap any route you take.

https://www.blacksmokeindustries.com/

See what Cummins does. But I'm leaning towards you might need a specialty shop of sorts.

But I would start with the basics, maybe even go back over the injectors and see what exactly they are doing or not doing and get some good solid base line numbers for all the engine stuff.

Some folks can really get in the weeds with these set ups and the wrong combination or poor base engine performance numbers tossing the wrong parts together make it worse at times.

Sounds like a good baseline is in order to see what they find.
 
Cummins may only set the timing to factory specifications, you want it to be in the 16 degree area. Stock timing (12ish) is known to slowly retard over time as the gear is press fit. 12.5 degrees was barely enough to keep it from popping and farting blue smoke when cold. A little afc work will get you some useable HP, once again cummins won’t be able to do that for you. Where are you in PA? Check via email or call Garafalo enterprises for a good shop recommendation if he can’t do it for you himself.


https://garofaloent.net/site/
 
No power under 1700 rpm is normal. If you advance the timing the turbo spool up will come even later. Popping and smoke are things I've never encountered at any rpm. Checking your timing is an easy job if you are looking to see if the stock timing is off. A pin in the cam gear and a pin in the injection pump. All spelled out in the factory service manual. If you have spent thousands I hope part of that money was for the book. 1998 Dodge Ram Factory Service Manual (genosgarage.com)
 
Isn't the 12V a dog anyways?
Just driving with my buddies 98 24V 215HP made me fall asleep instantly, that thing was so lame before we helped it. First impression was - this can't be real, must be a bad nightmare.

I've never driven a 12V... just asking.
Haha. My only response is yes. DOGS! But this dog is just a little off.
 
There is a pretty good local shop nearby me, they have a good reputation, besides the name is a little miss leading it's not a crank the pump up shop.

I'm sure it's not cheap any route you take.

https://www.blacksmokeindustries.com/

See what Cummins does. But I'm leaning towards you might need a specialty shop of sorts.

But I would start with the basics, maybe even go back over the injectors and see what exactly they are doing or not doing and get some good solid base line numbers for all the engine stuff.

Some folks can really get in the weeds with these set ups and the wrong combination or poor base engine performance numbers tossing the wrong parts together make it worse at times.

Sounds like a good baseline is in order to see what they find.
I agree! Thanks for that link. Kind of like you said im hoping Cummins can just give me a good base line and tell me where the engine is.
 
No power under 1700 rpm is normal. If you advance the timing the turbo spool up will come even later. Popping and smoke are things I've never encountered at any rpm. Checking your timing is an easy job if you are looking to see if the stock timing is off. A pin in the cam gear and a pin in the injection pump. All spelled out in the factory service manual. If you have spent thousands I hope part of that money was for the book. 1998 Dodge Ram Factory Service Manual (genosgarage.com)
Thankfully i dont mean thousands for this issue. Just keeping the truck in good order. Takes a little cash over time. I dont want to throw tons of money into a mystery so that is why its at cummins and thank you for that link. A must have.
 
Cummins may only set the timing to factory specifications, you want it to be in the 16 degree area. Stock timing (12ish) is known to slowly retard over time as the gear is press fit. 12.5 degrees was barely enough to keep it from popping and farting blue smoke when cold. A little afc work will get you some useable HP, once again cummins won’t be able to do that for you. Where are you in PA? Check via email or call Garafalo enterprises for a good shop recommendation if he can’t do it for you himself.


https://garofaloent.net/site/
Just outside of york pa.
Thanks for the link and information! Im just hoping cummins will give me a good baseline and i can take it from there.
 
UPDATE
Looked everything over. Most things seem in good order. The tech has been at that cummins location for 35 years. He will be checking fuel pressure tomorrow. Sadly i think they are thinking it may be an issue with the injection pump.
Stay tuned.
 
IMO the only reason a 215 pump would fail is because of crap fuel, meaning ATF, waste motor oil, etc. In about 4000 miles mine will have 1.5 million on it. Only opened up to replace the upper oil seal.
 
IMO the only reason a 215 pump would fail is because of crap fuel, meaning ATF, waste motor oil, etc. In about 4000 miles mine will have 1.5 million on it. Only opened up to replace the upper oil seal.
I've spoken with the original owner. Never anything like that and he was big on maintenance.
Im very curious to see what they say. 1.5 million. Wow
 
I’ve never heard of a stock, unmolested engine slipping.
They are going to advance the timing. The tech working on it has been there 35 years. He said that this was an issue that he has seen many times as far as the sputter and smoke on heavy cold throttle and wot in low gear. So if advancing the timing doesnt work we have to start diving into the pump itself.
 
UPDATE
So Rusty puts down 170hp on the dyno. Kind of sad being a 215 pump but they said that is within their books spec. At full load on the dyno the truck has 25psi of fuel pressure.
So low power, maybe its just a stock dog. So for the smoke and sputter when cold and under low gear wot, they are going to advance the timing. The tech that has been there 35 years and service writer that has been there 25+ years said this was an issue they would see back when they saw these trucks a lot and that 8 out of 10 times advancing the timing would help.
If this doesnt help the only thing they know to do is open up the pump.
 
215 is really nothing, especially you have driven a Commonrail before.
Also the Torque is very low on these compared to anything newer.
And Torque is what makes the Truck feel powerful.
 
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