03-08 steering box upgrade

[muchsnow]

The included pitman arm does work with the new linkage

Yep, the new pitman arm will/can be used with the Y and T linkage configuration on the new (kit) steering box . If you have the y linkage you will use the new end link. If you have the suspension upgrade (T config) you use your current link on the new pitman arm that came with the kit. I could prob scan the included instructions if anybody wants to see them.

I'm actually working on installing this (T upgrade and new type steering gear) on my 2001. 5, 2500 4x4. We'll see how that goes... ... .

 

[brods]

A couple of questions:

What did you guys do about the box hitting the fan shroud? Trim the shroud or leave it? EDIT: went back through the thread and trim it was the answer, my bad.
When turned by hand on the bench, did the new box have noticeably more resistance when moving through dead center compared to either side of center?

Just a heads up, as someone has previously mentioned, this box has noticeably less power assist than the original box (at least it does with the original stock pump). It is noticeable when turning the wheels (of course) and on highly crowned roads where it takes more effort to hold the wheel to the left to keep the truck going straight.

 

[muchsnow]

Second Generation Steering upgrade to third or fourth generation steering box....

Well does a third gen box fit a 2nd gen?

Ya know what, I'm actually working on making that happen... ..... using this adapter http://www.ksl.com/?nid=218&ad=13808131&cat=&lpid=&search=ramsteering (which he doesn't always need to charge 450. 00 for (aaand my own pitman arm is for the BIG steering gear), a new (as in fits the new MONDO Dodge kit steering box sitting on my bench) Borgeson 3/4" 36 spline by 3/4" DD universal joint to fit the Borgesen shaft I already have, and maybe some power steering hose "issues"... ... . I haven't dropped the old box yet but I have been taking pics for later on, plus I've already put third gen brakes on all around and the new fourth gen style T type steering upgrade made for the third generation trucks. Funny, a LOT of stuff is interchangeable here, you kinda have to have a good eye for measurement, angle, and clearance (most of us got it), a parts site or guy that won't try to kill you in your sleep, and kinduva a curious nature. ... ... It also helps to have a fairly clean truck and a few bux in reserve to throw at it AND a spare truck to drive (my wifes) while everything's up in the air for weeks... ... we'll see about the fan shroud here pretty soon... ...

 

[Superdawg]

A couple of questions:

What did you guys do about the box hitting the fan shroud? Trim the shroud or leave it? EDIT: went back through the thread and trim it was the answer, my bad.
When turned by hand on the bench, did the new box have noticeably more resistance when moving through dead center compared to either side of center?

Just a heads up, as someone has previously mentioned, this box has noticeably less power assist than the original box (at least it does with the original stock pump). It is noticeable when turning the wheels (of course) and on highly crowned roads where it takes more effort to hold the wheel to the left to keep the truck going straight.

I'm glad someone else noticed that too. Even before this new box went on, I would have liked more assist. After it went on, I have been somewhat obsessed with trying to get decent steering assist. It shouldn't be too much to ask. To cover all my bases, I replaced the pump, twice. I put a rebuilt power booster on. I replaced every high and low pressure line and the cooler with factory, latest superceded parts. I tested the pressure/flow when I put the steering gear on and it is within specs.
My biggest complaint is that the steering is a little stiff. I don't think there should be much effort to get past dead center left or right? Am I wrong?
What is a little weird is when the vehicle is cold, the steering has a lighter feel, easier to turn right or left. After it warms up, the steering gets stiffer and stays that way.
Also, there is about 3/4" play in the steering wheel before I get the pitman arm to turn. Annoying with a new box...
Frustrating when you put a lot of time and effort into a vehicle.....

 

[Superdawg]

A couple of questions:



What did you guys do about the box hitting the fan shroud? Trim the shroud or leave it? EDIT: went back through the thread and trim it was the answer, my bad.

When turned by hand on the bench, did the new box have noticeably more resistance when moving through dead center compared to either side of center?



Just a heads up, as someone has previously mentioned, this box has noticeably less power assist than the original box (at least it does with the original stock pump). It is noticeable when turning the wheels (of course) and on highly crowned roads where it takes more effort to hold the wheel to the left to keep the truck going straight.

I'm glad someone else noticed that too. Even before this new box went on, I would have liked more assist. After it went on, I have been somewhat obsessed with trying to get decent steering assist. It shouldn't be too much to ask. To cover all my bases, I replaced the pump, twice. I put a rebuilt power booster on. I replaced every high and low pressure line and the cooler with factory, latest superceded parts. I tested the pressure/flow when I put the steering gear on and it is within specs.

My biggest complaint is that the steering is a little stiff. I don't think there should be much effort to get past dead center left or right? Am I wrong?

What is a little weird is when the vehicle is cold, the steering has a lighter feel, easier to turn right or left. After it warms up, the steering gets stiffer and stays that way.

Also, there is about 3/4" play in the steering wheel before I get the pitman arm to turn. Annoying with a new box...

Frustrating when you put a lot of time and effort into a vehicle.....

 

[Prairie Dog]

FWIW, my original gear was replaced under warranty with another (smaller oem type) new one. It was stiff too - for a few weeks.

 

[WalterJ]

Has anyone here installed the new box on a Ram with a lift? I have a 4" kit in mine that has the reversed pitman arm where the end link attaches to the bottom of the pitman arm to drop the angle of the end linkage. The lift kit came with the different pitman arm. Can you just get a reversed pitman arm for one of the newer trucks and just use it? My steering box is definitely on its way out with the 35's and plow usage on my truck.

I needed to repl gear box. The one from Geno's req'd milling a precisely positioned flat to be compatible with OEM steering links. My mechanic & I 'respectfully declined' that task. Purchased new box from dlr. No clue from them, that it is NOT compatible with '4. 5 OEM linkage! So then forced to order replacement linkage [approx. $600+], and wowee what a difference. We called the dealer & found that the '4. 5 gear box & linkage went thru 4-5 iterations of design changes, but apparently keeping the same P/N's. This new box & link assy. is 50% bigger, beefier, stouter than '04. 5 OEM. They never saw anything like it on a non-commercial truck; looks like it came off a 5500+ truck!



The RV'ng this week to Pensacola, FL was a pleasure; tight but responsive... 'driving' my truck is minimal due to the now inherent stability. I've spent $1,100 on worse investments for sure. I have a mild 2'-3" front lift from the Bilstein "Leveler" kit. The alignment was checked and just needed minimal tweeking for perfection.

 

[Yo Hoot]

I finally got around to getting my parts installed... not done but close. Job wasn't too bad. I had no interference with the fan shroud. My truck is 04. Pump was easy to replace. Steering gearbox was easy too. Getting the hose fitting lined up was a little trick. . some interference there with one line hitting another.

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Also going to fix the engine oil leak that caused this.
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Old box was soaked from both itself and the pump leaking.
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Disconnect steering shaft.
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Be sure you have the wheel well liner removed.
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Disconnect this line at the firewall before dropping the box.
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The three bolts that hold the box on the frame.
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I used a can to sit the box on so I could remove the lines easier.
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Old box was a mess.
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Major parts removed.
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Installing a new track bar end link required drilling out the mounting hole for a larger bolt.
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Making spacers for the track bar end link.
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[Yo Hoot]

Remove old pump.
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Install new pulley on new pump.
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Old and New pumps.
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Pump installed. Pretty easy.
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Installing box.
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New pitman arm and sector shaft support fitting.
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More to come. This is all I got done over the weekend. Been relatively warm but kinda wet now.
Still have to fix the front gear case leak while I have good access and finish installing the track bar and new linkage today.




On edit: Did the gear case clean and seal yesterday. . https://www.turbodieselregister.com...12674-Oil-Leak-help-please&highlight=oil+leak

Today... install steering linkage and see if the Defiant sector support will bolt up to the new steering box.

 

[Yo Hoot]

I scanned the instruction set for the new steering box. It also has all the info on 03-08 linkage types, compatibility and joint angle alignment technique.

http://www.getdieselpower.com/cars/dodge/2004_Cummins/steering_box_2012/K6855778.PDF

 

[nadt770]

Hey guys, I have read through this thread and I'm a bit confused. I have an 08, 2500 with all stock suspension and tire size. It seems to steer fine with 119k miles on it. However this is my 1st "real" truck, so I don't have anything to compare it to. Does this stuff apply to me or is it the older trucks that are having all these problems? What should I be aware of on my 08? I work the oil fields in west Texas and pull a 5th. wheel. I do drive slow and carefully on the rig roads, trying not to beat it up to bad(most of these rig roads are horrendous!). TIA for helping to clear this up for me.

 

[Yo Hoot]

This is not a must have mod. If your truck is doing fine and you aren't experiencing any unusual issues with pre-mature steering box wear than don't be concerned. If you are keeping your truck for the long haul than when it comes time to rebuild or replace your steering box just remember that you are the driver and you make the decisions as to what new parts you want to use, not a dealership.

 

[Yo Hoot]

BTW, The Defiant steering support would not fit on this new box. I cut the part off that holds the bearing block. Re-installed the plate without the support part. Now all I have to do is put the bearing onto the shaft and make a splice piece and either weld or bolt it into place. The new steering box actually shifts the position of the sector shaft sideways about 1/2".

 

[Yo Hoot]

Finished modifying the Defiant steering box support today and installing the Bilstein dampener in the stock location.
Front end feels great.


I cut the bearing section off and re-positioned it onto the new steering box. Had to do a little clearance grinding to clear the pitman arm
Layed a piece of angle iron in there, clamped and tacked. Took it off and finished welding. . paint. . install.

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[seafish]

Thanks for the REALLY nice write-up with pics on beefing up the front end of your truck. It looks really stout now... I am sure that you will love the way it drives and handles. I had most of the same work done on mine, but luckily enough it was done by my dealership under the extended warranty. I guess that I am going to have to mod my Defiant SBS the same way you have done. I already have the larger pitman arm nut, but was not sure how or where I would have to move the bearing plate in order to get it to line up with the sector shaft. I was hoping to simply elongate the mounting holes for the bearing plate, but obviously I will need to drop it down as well as you have done.



THANKS AGAIN for forging the way!!!!

 

[Yo Hoot]

Thanks for the REALLY nice write-up with pics on beefing up the front end of your truck. It looks really stout now... I am sure that you will love the way it drives and handles. I had most of the same work done on mine, but luckily enough it was done by my dealership under the extended warranty. I guess that I am going to have to mod my Defiant SBS the same way you have done. I already have the larger pitman arm nut, but was not sure how or where I would have to move the bearing plate in order to get it to line up with the sector shaft. I was hoping to simply elongate the mounting holes for the bearing plate, but obviously I will need to drop it down as well as you have done.

THANKS AGAIN for forging the way!!!!

Thank you and Bob4x4 for turning me on to a lot of the info.

 

[Yo Hoot]

I have to tell you all... . this upgrade has transformed my front end. Not only are all of my issues fixed, it behaves like never before. I just did a 35 mile highway trip on Pennsylvania highway. Zero bump steer. Zero shake. Excellent road feel through the steering wheel, meaning there is plenty of feedback but road bumps are not felt.

I really think that this new box, the 2008 steering linkage and the EMF modified track bar is the final word.

I'm beyond happy.

 

[seafish]

Yo Hoot, that must feel really nice, considering all of the effort AND dollars that you put into this.

PS--Would it be at all possible for you to tell EXACTLY which direction (well, say within 1/8") you had to move the bearing support on the Defiant SBS in order to use it... if you can, that would let me cut, weld and paint mine before installing it, thus saving some time.
It looks like the bearing support had to move down and over, but... ???

 

[Yo Hoot]

See what I can do. I'm not at home right now.

 

[Bob4x4]

I think the best way would be wait till you have all the parts installed. Without a jig the measurements aren't the best way imho